New Everton Stadium

Amw79 said:
Yeah, get all that and as I said I think it's a good deal for LCC. My only concern is RS playing up the risk, and the council cabinet being risk averse and not taking the dosh.

I actually think they will go for it, but being an Evertonian you get used to looking for the pitfalls in any of our plans.
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But the risk is miniscule. In fact, less than that.

1. Its a 30/40 year lease/mortgage arrangement. So the annualised commitment or guarantor status is low, and will decrease every single year. The maximum risk for LCC will be the first week the whole deal kicks in. Sky, the PL, and EFC would all need to go south that week for a problem to occur for LCC.

2. IF, and its a big if, EFC ceased to be, then LCC would have first dibs on any assets we had. Including the land and lease. If we ceased to be, chances are any players we had would be mince, but LCC could flog them as well.
 
roydo said:
But the risk is miniscule. In fact, less than that.

1. Its a 30/40 year lease/mortgage arrangement. So the annualised commitment or guarantor status is low, and will decrease every single year. The maximum risk for LCC will be the first week the whole deal kicks in. Sky, the PL, and EFC would all need to go south that week for a problem to occur for LCC.

2. IF, and its a big if, EFC ceased to be, then LCC would have first dibs on any assets we had. Including the land and lease. I we ceased to be, chances are any players we had would be mince, but LCC could flog them as well.
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Yep, the risk is minuscule, but not zero. As I said my concern lies not with whether there's too much risk - there isn't, but that there could be people on the council unwilling to accept any risk to public money, and whether we'll see that aspect played up by our lovables.

Again, though, I think it will go through, as has likely been teed up already.

Once that happens, it will be interesting to see who takes on the role of 'The Funder', as you have to suspect this has also been teed up by Mosh et al.
 
Mogwai said:
For such a complex build location, with such poor exchange rates, and what is meant to be a 'world class' and 'iconic' stadium, can someone please explain to me how we are meant to do that with only £300M to £350M? I might have missed it being explained earlier, soz!
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I wonder about that, I think this is just the sum of money we have to find ourselves perhaps but there will be other sums added to it from outside the club? I dunno, but I do think a lot of people are using the Spurs cost as a yardstick for a decent stadium and they shouldnt since there ground is going to be a lot different to ours and in a much harder location to work in.
 

steelpipe said:
Moshiris mates don't make the type of steel you would typically use when constructing a stadium, so no advantage from that source.
But being at a quayside means the steel work and precast concrete can be fabricated anywhere in the world and delivered to site by ship so you are not reliant on the few fabricators capable of stadium work in the UK. You can ship 5,000tonnes of steel all the way from China for £50,000, but to move it from Bolton or Bury to Liverpool by road would cost 5 times as much. The millenium stadium in Cardiff was fabricated in Italy and shipped back to the UK - directly to site. Most of the stadium for Euro 2004 (including Benfica & Porto) cost less than £100million. So you can produce something spectacular for £300 million.
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Don't think I've noticed you round these parts before mate. But I like the cut of your jib :bye:
 
Amw79 said:
Yep, the risk is minuscule, but not zero. As I said my concern lies not with whether there's too much risk - there isn't, but that there could be people on the council unwilling to accept any risk to public money, and whether we'll see that aspect played up by our lovables.

Again, though, I think it will go through, as has likely been teed up already.

Once that happens, it will be interesting to see who takes on the role of 'The Funder', as you have to suspect this has also been teed up by Mosh et al.
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I get your concern but to be honest I think the loan has already been sorted. Essentially Mr Moshiri is Uzminov's financial controller. Farhad made his fortune by virtually doubling Uzminov's assets and setting up USM as a holding company for him. Even though Uzminov is the major shareholder, Moshiri is the Chairman of USM Holdings and this paved the way for their sponsorship of USM Finch Farm.
I may be wishing this scenario rather than thinking about it but if you were Uzminov and you were fed up with being ignored at a club you and your financial magician owned 30% of and you decided to go and buy another club, you could control to your liking, wouldn't you send your financial magician to it to do the groundwork, make sure it could flourish in the right location while gradually upping the standard of the playing staff. You wouldn't just say to Arsenal... "Right.. because I've got no say.. I'm out" and then look a [Poor language removed] if Peel wouldn't sell the land or you couldn't get planning permission to build on a World Heritage site or the LCC wouldn't play ball with what you wanted to do.. and don't forget, Uzminov's probably used to organisations doubling the price once they know he wants something.
No fellow Blues... this is one clever cookie who has sent his "go to guy" to quietly set this things up for him.. under the radar (apart from the USM sponsorship of a blooming trading ground that has netted us £75 million for five years already ffs) and once things are in place and he's sure shovels are in the ground and the stadium is going ahead the other 50.1% is gong to be acquired and he and his mate are gonna put us at the top table of European Football!.... ha!!.... I had that Machiavellian plot worked out from the day I found out who Farhad was... maybe it's all wishful thinking but then again.... things are falling into place... bit by bit...
Go on... slaughter me... We can dream can't we...
 
DavyboyBlue said:
I get your concern but to be honest I think the loan has already been sorted. Essentially Mr Moshiri is Uzminov's financial controller. Farhad made his fortune by virtually doubling Uzminov's assets and setting up USM as a holding company for him. Even though Uzminov is the major shareholder, Moshiri is the Chairman of USM Holdings and this paved the way for their sponsorship of USM Finch Farm.
I may be wishing this scenario rather than thinking about it but if you were Uzminov and you were fed up with being ignored at a club you and your financial magician owned 30% of and you decided to go and buy another club, you could control to your liking, wouldn't you send your financial magician to it to do the groundwork, make sure it could flourish in the right location while gradually upping the standard of the playing staff. You wouldn't just say to Arsenal... "Right.. because I've got no say.. I'm out" and then look a [Poor language removed] if Peel wouldn't sell the land or you couldn't get planning permission to build on a World Heritage site or the LCC wouldn't play ball with what you wanted to do.. and don't forget, Uzminov's probably used to organisations doubling the price once they know he wants something.
No fellow Blues... this is one clever cookie who has sent his "go to guy" to quietly set this things up for him.. under the radar (apart from the USM sponsorship of a blooming trading ground that has netted us £75 million for five years already ffs) and once things are in place and he's sure shovels are in the ground and the stadium is going ahead the other 50.1% is gong to be acquired and he and his mate are gonna put us at the top table of European Football!.... ha!!.... I had that Machiavellian plot worked out from the day I found out who Farhad was... maybe it's all wishful thinking but then again.... things are falling into place... bit by bit...
Go on... slaughter me... We can dream can't we...
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Bang on. i will be more surprised if this wasnt to happen
 
Consistently throughout this process the ITK crowd have have proven to be far too optimistic on where we are in the process and on the scale of what is being planned. It is simply far more complex than most of us can comprehend.

Convincing ourselves that funding is in place from Moshiri (or Usmanov) and that it will be bigger than the stated target capacity and more expensive and spectacular is a manifestation of our hopes and desires rather than anything grounded in fact. I'd caution us not to get carried away or to assume things are more than they appear.

I'm not saying we may not eventually get something bigger, sexier and without recourse to financial institutions but the moment we start assuming good things or trusting a Board that still includes Kenwright & Elstone to automatically 'get it' is the moment we'll be horribly disappointed.

Of course we should be happy with where we have got so far but we should keep the pressure on the club to deliver something exceptional not just something commercially attractive to Moshiri and the Board. If interests align we'll be happy but they don't always.

I'm not in the 'Moshiri is a fraud' camp. He has been good for us so far but he is a good businessman not a Good Samaritan. He isn't planning to drop bundles of his own money on either the stadium or the team. It is not his way of operating. He is an injection of competence, professionalism and extensive contacts that should augur well for us. He has relieved us of our absolute penury but he is not and will not be a sugar daddy.

Cautious optimism not delirium.
 

The binman chronicles said:
Wouldn't say the location is complex it has its good points and bad points. Bad points include the whole heritage business, filling the dock once drained, (although you can imagine big barges of earth being docked beside it should make it easier than say it was only accessible by road) draining itself isn't an issue.

Good points include as it is a big hole already you can bet your life that one tier will be below ground level, this saves money on making that look pretty on the outside, less glass/bricks etc. The roof supports don't have to be so tall saving money there too. So it's not impossible to think it will be cheaper than some peoples estimates. I would guess the final cost will be close to 400 million unless Moshiri gets mates rates on the steel and building crew or the capacity stays at 50,000.
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If the capacity were 50,000, we would have a waiting list for season tickets for years. It makes no sense unless the footprint/design dictates a smaller stadium.
 
toffee66 said:
Consistently throughout this process the ITK crowd have have proven to be far too optimistic on where we are in the process and on the scale of what is being planned. It is simply far more complex than most of us can comprehend.

Convincing ourselves that funding is in place from Moshiri (or Usmanov) and that it will be bigger than the stated target capacity and more expensive and spectacular is a manifestation of our hopes and desires rather than anything grounded in fact. I'd caution us not to get carried away or to assume things are more than they appear.

I'm not saying we may not eventually get something bigger, sexier and without recourse to financial institutions but the moment we start assuming good things or trusting a Board that still includes Kenwright & Elstone to automatically 'get it' is the moment we'll be horribly disappointed.

Of course we should be happy with where we have got so far but we should keep the pressure on the club to deliver something exceptional not just something commercially attractive to Moshiri and the Board. If interests align we'll be happy but they don't always.

I'm not in the 'Moshiri is a fraud' camp. He has been good for us so far but he is a good businessman not a Good Samaritan. He isn't planning to drop bundles of his own money on either the stadium or the team. It is not his way of operating. He is an injection of competence, professionalism and extensive contacts that should augur well for us. He has relieved us of our absolute penury but he is not and will not be a sugar daddy.

Cautious optimism not delirium.
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To be honest the funding surprised me but as its been commented on many times in this thread I aint going to repeat it. Suffice to say it has greater benefits than if Moshiri had simply written a blank cheque.
 
DavyboyBlue said:
Plus... £100 million if the stadium is able to be altered to host athletics.. And before anyone says we don't want an athletic stadium I totally 100% agree! However if our 60,000 seater bear pit for footy can have its surface raised like Celtic Park did for a running track to go over the pitch side seats and we reduce our capacity to 50,000 we/LCC would get in the region of £100 Million for providing the Commonwealth games stadium. Knock that off the price! Also if I could just say... if we have received in the region of £75 million for five years to sponsor the bloody training ground in the middle of nowhere (apologies to the residents of Finch Farm) what would USMinov pay to ""sponsor" an "iconic" stadium on the top 5 most recognisable waterfronts in the world..... just sayin....
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I think you've mistaken Celtic park for Hampden Park.

Hampden was converted to athletics but it was already a bowl type to begin with. It has huge gaps behind the goals, like the old Wembley, so it was already the right shape for a conversion.

It also took an eternity to get ready.
They started it in the Dec of 2013 for a 10 day event at the end of the following July.
Not sure how long it took to dimantle it all.

Can't see how it could ever be replicated in a ground with stands that are close to the pitch & square to all sides of the pitch.
 
The dust had now settled
An here was the proof
Our troublesome neighbours
Had built themselves a new roof

It was tall it was high
An they were all chuffed to bits
But it looked out of place
As though nothing quite fits

Carragher mocked how small Goodison seemed
But what was in store
We could only have dreamed
They mocked an they ridiculed day after day
Have you saw our new stand you'd hear them all say

But things had now changed back across Stanley park
An the northern blue army
We're coming out of the dark
Farhad an Bill were hatching a plan
To [Poor language removed] off from walton
As soon as they can

This place is [Poor language removed]
Said Farhad with a frown
The red [Poor language removed] have run everyone out of this town
There's no houses left no shops on this land
All just to build themselves
A gigantic roof on a stand

This place was once so lovely
An pretty,
but now it's the arsehole of our lovely city

Bill said to Farhad so wat shall we do?
We can't stay here cos this town is thru !
Well relocate said Farhad with a look in his eye
To the heart of the city
Where the Mersey flows by

We will build us an empire
To wipe the smile off their
Face
An put all those silly reds
Back in their place

Something that puts us
Back on the worlds map
Not tiptoeing through walton
In all the dog crap

We will make our team stronger
an fitter
An rise like a Phoenix
Then we ll see who is bitter

We will make them magnificent
They'll all come to see em
An build an arena
Like a big coliseum

With pride an with passion
In our royal blue jersey
In our blue coliseum
On the banks of the Mersey

So that's what we'll do with the help of the mayor
An we will breeze out of walton without even a care
Why aim for the moon
When you can reach for the stars
So [Poor language removed] off to Anfield ........
Cos THE CITYS ALL OURS
 

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