New Everton Stadium

[roydo]

Kroenke and family will be there for the next 20 years and there'd never be a sale. Here the timescale for a build and sale looks quicker.

Yep, agree. Nevertheless, he gave up a copper bottomed share holding for this. That said, it would be hypocritical of me to suggest he did that for a mere punt.

All along my narrative has been a long game that EFC is the gateway to.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

All that underlines my point: he's sacrificed nothing for Everton. He's not a benefactor. And on the strength of purchasing club stock he stands on the cusp of getting the club to pay for a stadium and get itself in debt to the tune of (very conservative figure I would now say) £500M.

If/when that stadium is built he will walk off with an absolute mint for his shares if they snag a new owner post-build and sale. Everton are the goose that's going to lay his golden egg. Dont ever forget who's going to get the massive short to medium term benefit out of any such build. It's Moshiri and his cohorts.

Positive about Everton? At the moment it's hard to see isn't it? Unless you see being midtable playing dinosaur football and being left miles behind by a growing PL elite as something to be positive about?

One chink of light is that we have a clutch of talented youngsters who are coming through and a good manager coming in will get that to work with plus player sale cash. That needs to start no later than this summer though.

This post merely highlights your complete ignorance when understanding how any businessman chooses to invest in his business.

Moshiri has chosen - note chosen - to put £150m of his own cash onto the balance sheet. He’s done so as a minority shareholder. This cash is to all intents and purposes an equity investment, only being a minority shareholder he can’t formally list it as such on the BS. It comes without a repayment schedule and carries no interest.

Who ever suggested that his long term view isn’t to make money out of EFC? Why would he not want to do that? Of course his aim is to increase the value of his equity way beyond what its current value is, what’s wrong with that? However, in order to do so, he’s going to have to create a club that is valued on a competely different stratosphere to where it is now.

Your argument that his investment into EFC is merely the transfer of debt is ludicrous, he could have let the club sit there with its current level of debt and done nothing. Only he hasn’t done that, has he? He’s cleared the entire debt and then some, partly in order to facilitate the move to a new stadium which simply wouldn’t have been possible without the debt clearance. Only you pour scorn on that happening as well, so if there’s no stadium then what’s his aim? As per you’re trying to cover every negative angle possible , as that’s what you do.

God knows why like, there’s nothing wrong with a bit of healthy scepticism but your version is bizarre and I’ve no idea what you get out of arguing Black is White on numerous subjects at once. Without the stadium there’s no real uplift in value, but the stadium is a pipe dream right?

Sort your story out ffs

 

[ijjysmith]

 

[davek]

This post merely highlights your complete ignorance when understanding how any businessman chooses to invest in his business.

Moshiri has chosen - note chosen - to put £150m of his own cash onto the balance sheet. He’s done so as a minority shareholder. This cash is to all intents and purposes an equity investment, only being a minority shareholder he can’t formally list it as such on the BS. It comes without a repayment schedule and carries no interest.

Who ever suggested that his long term view isn’t to make money out of EFC? Why would he not want to do that? Of course his aim is to increase the value of his equity way beyond what its current value is, what’s wrong with that? However, in order to do so, he’s going to have to create a club that is valued on a competely different stratosphere to where it is now.

Your argument that his investment into EFC is merely the transfer of debt is ludicrous, he could have let the club sit there with its current level of debt and done nothing. Only he hasn’t done that, has he? He’s cleared the entire debt and then some, partly in order to facilitate the move to a new stadium which simply wouldn’t have been possible without the debt clearance. Only you pour scorn on that happening as well, so if there’s no stadium then what’s his aim? As per you’re trying to cover every negative angle possible , as that’s what you do.

God knows why like, there’s nothing wrong with a bit of healthy scepticism but your version is bizarre and I’ve no idea what you get out of arguing Black is White on numerous subjects at once. Without the stadium there’s no real uplift in value, but the stadium is a pipe dream right?

Sort your story out ffs

This is another post that resembles the Toffeelover post above: you set out to upbraid me for being "negative" then in the rest of your post proceed to underline the reasons why my statement that Moshiri is no fairy Godmother is true.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

This is another post that resembles the Toffeelover post above: you set out to upbraid me for being "negative" then in the rest of your post proceed to underline the reasons why my statement that Moshiri is no fairy Godmother is true.

Only I said nothing of the sort, try having another look.

 

[GwladysBlue]

I've never 'liked' so many of Dave's posts. It's quite upsetting.

Going to be interesting to hear about the stadium at the AGM. I hope the board are really pushed to give answers and a clear outline plan.

The capacity that we want should at the very least be in the public domain by now.

 

[joey_macmo]

This is another post that resembles the Toffeelover post above: you set out to upbraid me for being "negative" then in the rest of your post proceed to underline the reasons why my statement that Moshiri is no fairy Godmother is true.

No rebuttal, no debate.

If I didn’t know any better I’d suggest you were here to promote traffic as you add literally zero to any topic you chime in on.

Shame on me for falling for it

 

[davek]

I love the debt shifting issue. What a fraud. Coughing up 150M isn’t a big deal, because now the clubs still OWES him the money. You know, the club he already owns. And the money that was already spent. Wait...

Yeah, I think since Moshiri arrived two years ago we can all appreciate the difference to what went before when all we had was selling players to fund players, a sketchy plan to move to a new stadium and a rubbish league position.

I'm glad those things are consigned to the dustbin of history.

 

[blueblue]

It will be interesting to see if are given any further snippets of information about the stadium at the AGM.

The timescale has now been established and we await detail of the design.
We are told that the costs of the stadium have increased over the initial budget , but maybe the key points are that the stadium design is in place and that it has already been costed.

There is still 49% of the shareholding of Everton available to be bought by Moshiri or by some other investor/owner. I wonder if the extra funding needed for the stadium could see the introduction of another wealthy owner.

 

[davek]

No rebuttal, no debate.

If I didn’t know any better I’d suggest you were here to promote traffic as you add literally zero to any topic you chime in on.

Shame on me for falling for it

No mate. Dont try that trick.

Here's what's been happening in this thread: you've been insisting that Moshiri has transformed this club and I've questioned that notion, then you lash out because you cant get everyone to see the Emperors new clothes you think are so splendid.

Rebuttal? Rebuttal to what? Put something tangible here to rebut. "Moshiri has pumped £150M into the club". No. Moshiri has bought club stock and he's bought up debt to allow the stadium bonanza he'll profit from to proceed (while handing a £500M long term millstone around the club's neck) which he'll later convert into more club stock.

He's speculating to accumulate on infrastructure. That infrastructure will only bear fruit for us in the very long term...and that's if nothing disastrous on-field intervenes in the VERY long period of debt repayment he and his cohorts are agreeing to.

So that's his plan. Meantime we struggle with a continuation of a sell to buy policy and his ham-fisted managerial choices that's put us in the 'kin toilet.

Well done "Mosh".

I suggest you take the advice I offered to another one of your fellow travellers earlier: stop worshipping false Gods. I really thought Evertonians had more sense after the list of utter bellends at boardroom level that have traipsed through this club in the last couple of decades or more.

 

[Milk]

I've never 'liked' so many of Dave's posts. It's quite upsetting.

Going to be interesting to hear about the stadium at the AGM. I hope the board are really pushed to give answers and a clear outline plan.

The capacity that we want should at the very least be in the public domain by now.

Interesting point that.
If it's too big, we're going to look like drongoes every time we're on TV - the West Ham of the NW
If it's too small, there is going to be a lot of snarling

However it's got to be built first and with Elstone already making noises about rising costs, I ain't holding my breath

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

No mate. Dont try that trick.

Here's what's been happening in this thread: you've been insisting that Moshiri has transformed this club and I've questioned that notion, then you lash out because you cant get everyone to see the Emperors new clothes you think are so splendid.

Rebuttal? Rebuttal to what? Put something tangible here to rebut. "Moshiri has pumped £150M into the club". No. Moshiri has bought club stock and he's bought up debt to allow the stadium bonanza he'll profit from to proceed (while handing a £500M long term millstone around the club's neck) which he'll later convert into more club stock.

He's speculating to accumulate on infrastructure. That infrastructure will only bear fruit for us in the very long term...and that's if nothing disastrous on-field intervenes in the VERY long period of debt repayment he and his cohorts are agreeing to.

So that's his plan. Meantime we struggle with a continuation of a sell to buy policy and his ham-fisted managerial choices that's put us in the 'kin toilet.

Well done "Mosh".

I suggest you take the advice I offered to another one of your fellow travellers earlier: stop worshipping false Gods. I really thought Evertonians had more sense after the list of utter bellends at boardroom level that have traipsed through this club in the last couple of decades or more.

Only Moshiri hasn’t bought any ‘stock’, pleased to see you’ve now conceded that the stadium will come to fruition and will be a ‘bonanza’ finally though.

 

[davek]

Only Moshiri hasn’t bought any ‘stock’, pleased to see you’ve now conceded that the stadium will come to fruition and will be a ‘bonanza’ finally though.

No, that's an if.

Oh, and thanks for the clarification on 'stock'. Very meaningful intervention. Well done.

 

[Toffeelover]

All that underlines my point: he's sacrificed nothing for Everton. He's not a benefactor. And on the strength of purchasing club stock he stands on the cusp of getting the club to pay for a stadium and get itself in debt to the tune of (very conservative figure I would now say) £500M.

If/when that stadium is built he will walk off with an absolute mint for his shares if they snag a new owner post-build and sale. Everton are the goose that's going to lay his golden egg. Dont ever forget who's going to get the massive short to medium term benefit out of any such build. It's Moshiri and his cohorts.

Positive about Everton? At the moment it's hard to see isn't it? Unless you see being midtable playing dinosaur football and being left miles behind by a growing PL elite as something to be positive about?

One chink of light is that we have a clutch of talented youngsters who are coming through and a good manager coming in will get that to work with plus player sale cash. That needs to start no later than this summer though.

Nice post Dave, I am not going to fall out with you over this, I recognise a fellow blue who is very concerned about the future of our club as am I. It is that we see that prospect in differing lights, as for making a profit basically all these folk who have bought into UK football clubs have done the same if one goes along with your view.

For me I do not think that is the case here, believe Mosh is committed to our club but only time will tell for either of us. One factor if what you say is true why did he share in the purchase of the Liver Building. I am sure if he had not come to our club he would never have heard of this the First Grace let alone help to buy.

The subject of finance for a stadium is tricky and yes the club will be in debt as are Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and others. But for the future of our club we have to have a new stadium and BM dock is the best option regardless of cost. With out it we will be consigned to the mid table also rans what alternative is there Dave?

I think Mosh coming into the club has been the best thing to happen since Moores, I ask you Dave what would be the alternative? just to keep on with GP limited to 35k, what future is there in that so when you query the cost of a new stadium and Mosh making perhaps a bucket of money in the future what do you propose the club should be doing?

Have to agree on your positive thoughts on our young players, which brings back to team management, which has been awful for the last two years with sheds of money in my book wasted. At least Allardyce steadied the club a bit but for me failed awfully in the last two games. In the long run I cannot see him favouring our young players but sticking to old hands like Jags. Mind other managers are not much better with their young players - Conte?, Mourinho? Klopp, to name a couple.

As I said Dave, not going to fall out with you and I hope that there is no animosity on your side which I would not be comfortable with, but I do like our discussions.

Cheers, Happy New Year

 

[davek]

For me I do not think that is the case here, believe Mosh is committed to our club but only time will tell for either of us. One factor if what you say is true why did he share in the purchase of the Liver Building. I am sure if he had not come to our club he would never have heard of this the First Grace let alone help to buy.

The subject of finance for a stadium is tricky and yes the club will be in debt as are Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and others. But for the future of our club we have to have a new stadium and BM dock is the best option regardless of cost. With out it we will be consigned to the mid table also rans what alternative is there Dave?

I think Mosh coming into the club has been the best thing to happen since Moores, I ask you Dave what would be the alternative? just to keep on with GP limited to 35k, what future is there in that so when you query the cost of a new stadium and Mosh making perhaps a bucket of money in the future what do you propose the club should be doing?

No, there's certainly no animosity mate.

On the above points:

The Liver Building was a part-purchase and gets maximum positive publicity. It probably didn't set him back that much and it's exactly the type of feelgood purchase that would make blues have an air of confidence about his long term plans here. It was strategic.

The stadium finance for those other clubs you mention are un-relatable to us: they have massive commercial strength and can easily bear the strain of repayment.

But we weren't trying to stay at GP at 35k before Moshiri. His tilt at moving is only the latest in a long line, and tbf the last one at kirkby was a signature from the sec of state away from reality. Let's not see Moshiri as any different until he proves otherwise.