Please offer your opinion on the statistics posted below...

[Goat]

Moyes spent 13m over 11 years NET.

Martinez spent 13m on Niasse.

So many levels.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Yeah, but it was mostly a good first season and then fell away. Not spectacular value for money.

Bit harsh, he had that horrific injury - in part by arguably being overplayed by Moyes when he had reportedly complained of a sore heel in training.

 

[Joey66]

The transfer market and the league in general have changed completely since the start of the decade, so it’s hard to compare. The ‘big 4’ has become a ‘big 6’ and FFP has made it near impossible to rival those clubs, whilst the Sky money has made the rest of the league more competitive.

The main thing that stands out for me from that is at the end of this season, we’ll have finished each of the last 6 seasons with a different manager:

2015- Martinez
2016 - Unsworth/Royle
2017 - Koeman
2018 - Allardyce
2019 - Silva
2020 - Ancelotti

We’ve not finished successive seasons with the same manager since 2014 & 2015 under Martinez. And it’s not like there’s been a progressive change between managers. Moyes to Martinez was a complete contrast, as was Martinez to Koeman, Allardyce to Silva and then Silva to Ancelotti.

On top of that, our current first team is made up of a squad of players brought in by different managers to suit different styles:

Moyes - Baines, Coleman
Martinez - Holgate, Niasse
Koeman - Stekelenberg, Schneiderlin, Calvert-Lewin, Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson, Martina,
Allardyce - Walcott, Tosun
Silva - Richarlison, Benard, Gomes, Mina, Digne, Lossl, Delph, Gbamin, Kean, Iwobi

Including caretakers, the majority of our first team have played under about 5 different managers, even the lads brought in this summer have played under 3.

We’ve been in transition for about 6 years, we need a settled period under a manager, who can bring in his own players to fit his own style. Until that happens, we’re going to struggle to compete with the top 6 on a consistent basis and struggle to challenge for silverware.

Roberto used loan plays and a bit of cash and got us the most points in the prem end the stats.....

 

[Goat]

Roberto used loan plays and a bit of cash and got us the most points in the prem end the stats.....

He finished 5th.

End of.

 

[blueblueday]

You say you can compare and then contradict yourself?

I said to some degree that I partially agree with you. Part of that was to be polite. That's not entirely contradicting myself is it?

 

[tremont]

He finished 5th.

End of.

Should have been 4th.

 

[Zeitgeist]

Below are two seperare periods of 5 consecutive seasons. Transfer expenditure and league finishes are included. Thanks.

2009/10 - 3.5m profit - 8th finish
2010/11 - 1.475m profit - 7th finish
2011/12 - 16.33m spent - 7th finish
2012/13 - 4.25m profit - 6th finish
2013/14 - 16m profit - 5th finish

Net Spend - 1.895m spent over 5 seasons.

Average league finish - 6.6

Managers over this 5 season period - David Moyes

___________________________________

2014/15 - 30.96m spent - 11th finish
2015/16 - 27.4m spent - 11th finish
2016/17 - 25.95m spent - 7th finish
2017/18 - 72.5m spent - 8th finish
2018/19 - 58.7m spent - 8th finish

Net Spend - 215.51m spent over 5 seasons

Average league finish - 9

Management over this 5 season period - Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, David Unsworth, Sam Allardyce, Marco Silva, Duncan Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti

Don't think it's comparable personally plus over the last few years teams have strengthened considerably i.e. spurs Leicester

 

[Goat]

Should have been 4th.

He finished 11th with the best Striker we have had in the last 30 years, twice.

He should have been a good manager.

 

[4737carlin]

Below are two seperare periods of 5 consecutive seasons. Transfer expenditure and league finishes are included. Thanks.

2009/10 - 3.5m profit - 8th finish
2010/11 - 1.475m profit - 7th finish
2011/12 - 16.33m spent - 7th finish
2012/13 - 4.25m profit - 6th finish
2013/14 - 16m profit - 5th finish

Net Spend - 1.895m spent over 5 seasons.

Average league finish - 6.6

Managers over this 5 season period - David Moyes

___________________________________

2014/15 - 30.96m spent - 11th finish
2015/16 - 27.4m spent - 11th finish
2016/17 - 25.95m spent - 7th finish
2017/18 - 72.5m spent - 8th finish
2018/19 - 58.7m spent - 8th finish

Net Spend - 215.51m spent over 5 seasons

Average league finish - 9

Management over this 5 season period - Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, David Unsworth, Sam Allardyce, Marco Silva, Duncan Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti

The main thing to note is we were doing better before Moshiri came

 

[Joey66]

He finished 5th.

End of.

Best points ever with attractive football end of .....

 

[tremont]

He finished 11th with the best Striker we have had in the last 30 years, twice.

He should have been a good manager.

And wasn't. But like the guy that followed him - he failed and fell up.

 

[tremont]

Best points ever with attractive football end of .....

In the same season we witnessed a 4-0 drubbing at Anfield.

 

[Goat]

Best points ever with attractive football end of .....

I long for the day I consider 5th quite the achievement again.

 

[the_leftback]

Hard to argue with this. Will he get the money to do it though? I believe it will be a tale of yes and no! Ultimately this may cause him to leave. He'll never get the sack though cos he would be too expensive to pay off. Like you say even if he just settles us for the next manager to come in 4 years down the line it will be a significant achievement.

I think so, I don’t think Ancelotti comes here without reassurances over transfers. From everything he’s said, he sounds like he’s bought into the project and is here for the long term. Hopefully that brings with it stability and success.

 

[blueblueday]

Don't think it's comparable personally plus over the last few years teams have strengthened considerably i.e. spurs Leicester

The point is there were different types of pressures from before the lucrative Sky deal came in compared the period after.

Kenwright was operating hand to mouth. I mean if it wasn't for the Rooney sale we may have gone into administration! Moyes was able to work effectively with these tight budgets and as such finish each season respectfully placed. It was demonstrated by some journalists quite a few times over that period how we successfully operated a good few places above the average wage of the team. On the whole, we commanded respect. There is a reason Moyes was selected to manage UTD. The caveat here is that we never bloody won anything! It was said he was too defence-minded and lacked the courage to achieve anything better. Also, I know a lot of blues on here deride him for fostering a 'small-time club' phenomenon. This they argue helped him to manage the fans expectations.

And that's the rub right there folks....

FANS EXPECTATION - It's huge

Since we've spent a bit fans have become entitled. The fact we are worse off creates so much anger and disillusionment it has become toxic. There is so much pressure on the club now to improve and that has to be the right thing. Ordinary players command such vulgar wage packets now it's no wonder we expect them to be amazing. My only hope is Ancelotti is not just thinking about his enormous wages and that he cares about this project. It's early days but we've just gotta try and be patient and get behind him.

We don't have much choice.