2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[Eggs]

I argued with @davek for ages about Martinez

but are people really trying to vault him for calling out Koeman? Really? This bloke destroyed Everton and we’re still dealing with the problems now, he then went and proved himself an utter buffoon at Barcelona. Read some of those posts back, it’s absolutely right, a complete over reliance on Lukaku’s counter attack football. Then when he left it all fell apart and we were in the bottom 3 after 18 months and over 100 mill spent.

…I was talking to somebody at USMFF a fortnight ago & lots at the club feel the rot really started with Koeman.

 

[BigDuncTributeBand]

What manager needs his two top scorers and his best centre back though?

I mean Liverpool would be absolutely fine with Salah Mane and Van Dijk missing half a season. You wouldn’t hear a word about it.

Mate, you were literally just telling me yesterday that our only problem is defence and that we’ve no problems going forward. Despite all our stats for chances, big chances, shots on target, xg being down the bottoms of the leauge.

Either we’ve been [Poor language removed] going forward and barely look like scoring - in which case, absolutely missing DCL and Richie goes some way to explaining it OR we’ve been fine going forward and have no problem banging in the goals, in which case we’ve not missed DCL or Richie so why bring them up. Can’t have it both ways.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Some good, pragmatic points mate.

I understood the appointment. I didn't like it, but we had to appoint someone and I preferred him over Howe, Nuno and other names mentioned.

I understand the challenges he has. We have a rotten core of players with terrible attitudes who regularly down tools - Ancelotti/Coleman's words.

I've said a few times;

A full fit team and we're 6th-10th.
A few injuries and we're 10th-16th.

I think if sack Benitez tomorrow, we don't improve as a football club to any worthwhile level this season. We finish midtable with or without him - Sam Allardyce style.

The difficulty I have is Everton's execution of Benitez.

Sure, interim like Chelsea did. Fine.

Giving him the autonomy to rebuild? I don't think that's wise but then I don't think it's wise to allow this Everton board to try and replace him.

What I am very confident of, is Everton's big, fundamental problems are not the fella who has been here 6 months and won more in his career than I can dream of Everton winning in my lifetime, but in the boardroom.

Fully aligned with this. In an ideal world he’d do a scorched earth interim period and leave some fertile conditions for a new manager to come in and actually make a go of. I don’t think he’d ever have accepted that though.

Of course he would never have been my first choice when Ancelotti left, but once Moshiri made his decision it made more sense to back the man working to try and improve us than imagine a hypothetical scenarios of other managers that may or may not have been interested in the job or capable of doing it.

I actually think Benitez has a natural limit on him as a manager, but if we get to that situation where we are firing him because he’s not progressed us from europa league football or for challenging consistently for trophies then I’d much rather that than see another manager ruined by this current squad culture.

A few seasons of pain to leave us with a squad of hard working committed players with some on field value, miles away from relegation worries, and the FFP issue finally balanced, would be a decent outcome from Benitez for a new manager to then step in and hopefully take us further. I wouldn’t wish the current circumstances on anyone though.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Mate, you were literally just telling me yesterday that our only problem is defence and that we’ve no problems going forward. Despite all our stats for chances, big chances, shots on target, xg being down the bottoms of the leauge.

Either we’ve been [Poor language removed] going forward and barely look like scoring - in which case, absolutely missing DCL and Richie goes some way to explaining it OR we’ve been fine going forward and have no problem banging in the goals, in which case we’ve not missed DCL or Richie so why bring them up. Can’t have it both ways.

We’ve managed well without them, there’s no question of that. Gray Gordon Townsend have really stepped up in a big way. So that we haven’t had a major problem scoring goals. We can’t say we haven’t missed them though, we absolutely have. Mina has been a huge miss as well.

 

[Thomasc]

Some good, pragmatic points mate.

I understood the appointment. I didn't like it, but we had to appoint someone and I preferred him over Howe, Nuno and other names mentioned.

I understand the challenges he has. We have a rotten core of players with terrible attitudes who regularly down tools - Ancelotti/Coleman's words.

I've said a few times;

A full fit team and we're 6th-10th.
A few injuries and we're 10th-16th.

I think if sack Benitez tomorrow, we don't improve as a football club to any worthwhile level this season. We finish midtable with or without him - Sam Allardyce style.

The difficulty I have is Everton's execution of Benitez.

Sure, interim like Chelsea did. Fine.

Giving him the autonomy to rebuild? I don't think that's wise but then I don't think it's wise to allow this Everton board to try and replace him.

What I am very confident of, is Everton's big, fundamental problems are not the fella who has been here 6 months and won more in his career than I can dream of Everton winning in my lifetime, but in the boardroom.

I feel everybody appreciates that there have been a very bad succession of injuries which certainly haven’t helped him at all.

But we are getting a really shocking level of performances and results, so I’m afraid that is what he will be judged on, like every single manager before him.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Cant we just give him some slack for the moment.

No, the only way he gets slack is if last night is the catalyst for our form improving, but we said that after the Arsenal game and look what happened

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Fully aligned with this. In an ideal world he’d do a scorched earth interim period and leave some fertile conditions for a new manager to come in and actually make a go of. I don’t think he’d ever have accepted that though.

Of course he would never have been my first choice when Ancelotti left, but once Moshiri made his decision it made more sense to back the man working to try and improve us than imagine a hypothetical scenarios of other managers that may or may not have been interested in the job or capable of doing it.

I actually think Benitez has a natural limit on him as a manager, but if we get to that situation where we are firing him because he’s not progressed us from europa league football or for challenging consistently for trophies then I’d much rather that than see another manager ruined by this current squad culture.

A few seasons of pain to leave us with a squad of hard working committed players with some on field value, miles away from relegation worries, and the FFP issue finally balanced, would be a decent outcome from Benitez for a new manager to then step in and hopefully take us further. I wouldn’t wish the current circumstances on anyone though.

To add, I'm not sure this group of players or perhaps the clubs culture is suited to a manager of his style.

Bottlers etc has often been accused due to being so mentally fragile as a team.

Whether that's a slant on Benitez or Everton is a debate in it's own right but you need a certain type of professional and club culture to react to this type of management;

In his 2015 autobiography, Gerrard spoke out about his difficult relationship working with Benitez and how it fired him up.

“I don’t think Rafael Benitez liked me as a person. I’m not sure why, but that’s the feeling I got from him. I can pick up the phone and speak to all of my previous Liverpool managers. Except for Rafael. Our working relationship was ultra-professional and his frostiness drove me to become a better player. I had a hunger to earn a compliment from him — but also a hunger to let him know he really needed me as a player. Your ego gets in the way and you think he’s not liking you. Looking back, he was an absolute master of tough love. In terms of structure, in terms of principles: out of possession, how aggressive we want to be. There’s a lot of Rafael Benitez in Rangers performances.”

I feel everybody appreciates that there have been a very bad succession of injuries which certainly haven’t helped him at all.

But we are getting a really shocking level of performances and results, so I’m afraid that is what he will be judged on, like every single manager before him.

No doubt mate. If we're 6th, there's likely no banners at a game.

But I've never had Evertonians express disappointment at Everton scoring goals before.

Never.

That's different level and indicative that some criticism is agenda driven and irrational. No point arguing against that, you have to accept it is what it is and factor that into whether he's the right man to be here.

 

[Cow kecks]

Why? Have I missed something?

He had Uzzy and Mosh written all over him!

 

[degsy]

To be serious for a second here: I really don't want us to sack another manager. Especially not after we e just sacked our DoF...

...Look, maybe he turns it all around tomorrow and we win the next ten games. But I don't see it coming. I don't see any signs of improvement at all. It's miserable football executed poorly. It's the worst I can recall us playing in at least 15 years. Does anyone really see this getting any better before his position becomes untenable and he gets sacked anyway.

2 things keeping him here;
1) Moshiri seems to have his back.
2) Watford and the other 3 haven't caught us - yet

 

[Thomasc]

To add, I'm not sure this group of players or perhaps the clubs culture is suited to a manager of his style.

Bottlers etc has often been accused due to being so mentally fragile as a team.

Whether that's a slant on Benitez or Everton is a debate in it's own right but you need a certain type of professional and club culture to react to this type of management;





No doubt mate. If we're 6th, there's likely no banners at a game.

But I've never had Evertonians express disappointment at Everton scoring goals before.

Never.

That's different level and indicative that some criticism is agenda driven and irrational. No point arguing against that, you have to accept it is what it is and factor that into whether he's the right man to be here.

I don’t think there is anybody here who wanted us to lose, but if losing meant the end of Benitez I would have taken that.
If that’s considered an agenda or not I’m not sure.

All I see is a very angry fan base at the moment which is brought about by the most divisive appointment the board could have made.

Add to that the obvious and glaringly bad way he is setting the team up, it’s just a perfect storm of unrest.

He needs to go, it’s not working and was never going to.

 

[Nymzee]

Were we bad before him? Yes
Are we at the same level of bad as last season? No
Are we getting worse? Yes
Are the signs of impovement in the playstyle? No

People might say he's remodelling the club from the ground up but so far:

- Injuries seemingly more frequent than before he fired the medical staff.
- Academy pathway isn't more clear than before him. Kids used out of necessity vs Chelsea, token minutes last night for Dobbin, Gordon getting lots of minutes but you'd argue if Richy and Townsend were fit that wouldn't have been the case.
- DoF gone but so far hasn't shifted any deadwood so can't really judge him on that front yet until we see how Digne goes.

I think personally it's bonkers to think this man is some form of stabiliser to the rocking ship that is Everton.

 

[Milk]

…I was talking to somebody at USMFF a fortnight ago & lots at the club feel the rot really started with Koeman.

Yes … started when he was allowed to spaff £220m.

Unbelievable really

 

[MACCA75]

…I was talking to somebody at USMFF a fortnight ago & lots at the club feel the rot really started with Koeman.

On the pitch was dull but we ground out pragmatic victories, but dem signings..

Gylfi, Keane, Bolasie, Sandro, Klassen.. Shocking.

 

[kenada_blue]

I'm utterly at a loss at what he's got us set up here...

It's a line that no one follows, it's not playing for offside, it's not man to man.

Its as though some players have some job, other have another, nothing on how to defend as a team.

There's players up to 2 players left all around the box here. You're relying on 1 defender clearing rather than clearing as a team. Because if that player misses it... we're wide open for follow ups all over the box.


It's truly bizzare

 

[Milk]

No, the only way he gets slack is if last night is the catalyst for our form improving, but we said that after the Arsenal game and look what happened

Could be his “Oxford” moment but I doubt it very much