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Roberto Martinez discussion

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I'm vastly underwhelmed by the appointment of Martinez, to be honest. That being said, we've no option but to get behind him.
 
davek said:
Look at the 'luminaries' of the English game playing in Europe of late: Stoke/Fulham/Newcastle...if you want to put it another way: we failed in our 'fight for Europe' 7 times in 11 seasons under Moyes.

I'm not denying he had a decent go at getting us there, but you're talking utter tripe about European qualification as a rule of thumb for what Martinez achieves or doesn't.
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Never said that, stop making things up. I said Moyes had us consistently fighting for Europe, which he did.
That was coming from my initial context of Martinez having to make a big step up to match Moyes.
Perhaps relegation to you is a step up from challenging for europe, but for me its not, you can be pedantic.. badly... again, as you normally do but it doesn't alter my inital comment in any way. Better players or not, its still a big step up that he needs to make.

Martinez has weaknesses on his CV as well as positives, he has for example as many relegations as he has major trophies, he's played plenty of turgid games that are not the free flowing attacking ones you are expecting, but he's had a different squad of lesser quality to play with.

The bar Moyes set at Everton is far higher than you give him credit for and only the most cynical amongst us can't see that, Martinez is still unknown with quality players, its right to be excited, its right to be optimistic, but there is nothing wrong with discussing the whole situation and not blindly assuming he's going to raise the bar.

Unless you right in which case Moyes was shocking and if Martinez finishes 8th he is also a terrible manager.
 

Ihaters said:
Never said that, stop making things up. I said Moyes had us consistently fighting for Europe, which he did.
That was coming from my initial context of Martinez having to make a big step up to match Moyes.
Perhaps relegation to you is a step up from challenging for europe, but for me its not, you can be pedantic.. badly... again, as you normally do but it doesn't alter my inital comment in any way. Better players or not, its still a big step up that he needs to make.

Martinez has weaknesses on his CV as well as positives, he has for example as many relegations as he has major trophies, he's played plenty of turgid games that are not the free flowing attacking ones you are expecting, but he's had a different squad of lesser quality to play with.

The bar Moyes set at Everton is far higher than you give him credit for and only the most cynical amongst us can't see that, Martinez is still unknown with quality players, its right to be excited, its right to be optimistic, but there is nothing wrong with discussing the whole situation and not blindly assuming he's going to raise the bar.

Unless you right in which case Moyes was shocking and if Martinez finishes 8th he is also a terrible manager.
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You had me until the last sentence.
 
Brennan said:
You had me until the last sentence.
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Not how I feel if it helps, just saying if Dave thinks that Moyes was that awful and he finished 8th and better, and Martinez is great, surely he should easily beat 8th?
Personally I think he'll do worse and that is okay with me, i'd like us to stay the same, but I think he'll do well to stay close to Moyes league finishes because Moyes did a much better job than Davek thinks.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
If that happened then it'd be down to Martinez taking us forwards & building on what Moyes left & he'd deserve plenty of credit for it. However, it wouldn't diminish what Moyes achieved from the day he arrived, until the day he left.

Oh & btw, if Moyes wins a pot next season at United, will you concede that he's not a 'bottler'?
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if he wins the prem title or the european cup or fa cup yes i will do, if he wins the league cup or charity shield then no, moyes big challenge is not winning a title with a team that he inherited that has won them constantly thought
 
Ihaters said:
Never said that, stop making things up. I said Moyes had us consistently fighting for Europe, which he did.
That was coming from my initial context of Martinez having to make a big step up to match Moyes.
Perhaps relegation to you is a step up from challenging for europe, but for me its not, you can be pedantic.. badly... again, as you normally do but it doesn't alter my inital comment in any way. Better players or not, its still a big step up that he needs to make.

Martinez has weaknesses on his CV as well as positives, he has for example as many relegations as he has major trophies, he's played plenty of turgid games that are not the free flowing attacking ones you are expecting, but he's had a different squad of lesser quality to play with.

The bar Moyes set at Everton is far higher than you give him credit for and only the most cynical amongst us can't see that, Martinez is still unknown with quality players, its right to be excited, its right to be optimistic, but there is nothing wrong with discussing the whole situation and not blindly assuming he's going to raise the bar.

Unless you right in which case Moyes was shocking and if Martinez finishes 8th he is also a terrible manager.
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But here we stand close season and Martinez is the one who has Wigan in Europe and Moyes left us short of it.

That's how crazy your own argument is about using Europe as the measurement between the two men.

We'll wait and see on Martinez...or, rather, most of us will wait and see; others will choose to stamp their feet about either Moyes leaving or not getting their FIFA Manager endorsed flavour of the month boss.
 

davek said:
But here we stand close season and Martinez is the one who has Wigan in Europe and Moyes left us short of it.

That's how crazy your own argument is about using Europe as the measurement between the two men.

We'll wait and see on Martinez...or, rather, most of us will wait and see; others will choose to stamp their feet about either Moyes leaving or not getting their FIFA Manager endorsed flavour of the month boss.
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Your the one stamping your feet fella, just at a manager that's not here any more, I am full of praise for his cup win, I am looking forward to him being here, I merely said it was a step up from relegation to a team that constently fights for europe. sorry for saying something slightly negative sir.
Your being pedantic again using the cup entry as that has nothing to do with league position, and it has not exactly been the norm for him has it?
You claim you're waiting to see if he's any good and I am not, yet you've clearly decided Martinez is a success long before a ball has been kicked, I am still trying to talk about the pros and cons as I will actually wait and see.
Pretty sure Martinez is the flavor of the month manager by the way. Not too many wanting him in last year.
 
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Bluenose1995 said:
The double standards is amazing moyes has done nothing at the club yet martinez is hyped up for "building the great foundations at swansea" success in football isnt down to just cups if you asked me a cup and relegation or no cup and top 6 (which we would have had europa had swansea/wigan not won the cups) I would certainly choose the latter

Put it into perspective would our cup win in 95 be as talked about had royle took us down that year?

Wake up!
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Your also dealing with a differing level of expectation, royle actually had money to spend whilst in charge well at least initially he did anyways, plus top flight footy at us is considered a given we do have a bit of history in that regard so relegation would be seen as a failure of epic proportions and something that even some simply terrible managers failed to achieve with us, for wigan this was their first ever major trophy of any kind in their entire history, for a team as small as they are, its something that can never be discounted as anything less than a huge achievement, in the end they have had a brief forray into the prem league something that with their funding and support base always would come to a end sooner rather than later, that cup on the other hand is forever
 
bluestevon said:
Your also dealing with a differing level of expectation, royle actually had money to spend whilst in charge well at least initially he did anyways, plus top flight footy at us is considered a given we do have a bit of history in that regard so relegation would be seen as a failure of epic proportions and something that even some simply terrible managers failed to achieve with us, for wigan this was their first ever major trophy of any kind in their entire history, for a team as small as they are, its something that can never be discounted as anything less than a huge achievement, in the end they have had a brief forray into the prem league something that with their funding and support base always would come to a end sooner rather than later, that cup on the other hand is forever
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Good post, hard to argue any of that for me.
 
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