2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[John from Bootle]

He can’t improve players if they didn’t cost anything

I don't believe anybody has said this. He's got a tune out of plenty of players or cetainly got the most out of them. Gana, Garner, Doucoure, Mykolenko, McNeil, Branthwaite and probably more for example.

The issue for me is in the final third. We're lacking pace and goals. Add in the glaring weakness in the full back positions and it's not hard to acknowledge the weaknesses of the squad without going overboard and claiming absolutely everybody is crap.

 

[murphy89]

Actually trying to win a game of football by making in game or tactical change is deemed ‘ridiculous’. Brilliant

Going two up top and changing shape to be open away from home doesn’t automatically give you a goal. It doesn’t automatically increase your chances of wining a game.

West Ham were starting to find space by the 75th minute. Creating more space would be suicidal.

Again, people seem to forget that West Ham team have spent circa 350/400m over the last 3 windows. They have better players.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You could of gone a back 3 of Myko, Tarkowski & Branthwaite putting Patterson at RWB and Young LWB

Mangala & Gueye central

With both Harrison & N'Diaye playing more central just behind Beto.

Harrison & N'Diaye can then get closer to the Centre forward than they can out wide still having a wide option using the fullbacks pushing Mangala & Gueye 5 yards further forward as we have the 3 Centre backs to cover

Indeed, though I'd love the reaction to Dyche setting up with a back 5.

Or bringing on a defender "when we should be going for a win"

 

[degsy]

Absolute brilliant post.

A key way to evaluate Dyche's impact is the path he has steered as away from... Would 777 have passed a Championship director's test? And RIP Everton FC.

But as a wool, I'm not at games each week and forking out to take youngsters to watch us week in and out must be painful, the playing style and results could of course be a bit better.

But Dyche's work is nearly done, we need to cheer the team on over the line. Whilst Dyche's hard work has merited a first season in BMD, I have changed my opinion and that the playing style and recruitment needed probably warrants different leadership. But we must not rock the boat now.

Need some warm weather training in the break and get the lads ready for a tricky December.

Is it just me or do we seem to play worse after warm weather breaks?

Play on grass at 10c - train on grass at 10c, they've got Indoor facilities if it's really cold and rainy

 

[NathDogg]

Is it just me or do we seem to play worse after warm weather breaks?

Play on grass at 10c - train on grass at 10c, they've got Indoor facilities if it's really cold and rainy

This plus we’re skint which has been parroted to death on this thread, we probably don’t have the funds for warm weather training.

The facilities at finch farm are brilliant, use that and try and work on some different tactics and systems perhaps

Also, Why should they all get a nice little jaunt to Portugal or wherever when they are performing the way they are? Rewarding failure, something Everton fc is brilliant at doing.

If they do go away, I suppose dyche could clip a few more around the lugholes, that worked well with Patterson….

 

[Smurph]

Football is played by two teams also (which some people seem to forget). When the other team has better quality options on the pitch and on the bench then ‘going for it’ ‘opening up’ ‘playing for the win’ easily turns into getting outplayed for the final 15 mins and losing.

Paqueta Bowen Soler Ings Coufal were getting on top of us at the weekend by the end. There’s no other midfield options available to wrestle control back. The fans might think ‘throw Beto on and go 2 upfront’ but if it allows Soler and Paqueta the run of the pitch and they build wave and wave of pressure and we lose then Dyche is proclaimed as a prehistoric dinosaur idiot for going 442.

You do not get points and win games in the PL if you have a bottom half team by just having a positive mindset or ‘going for it’ or ‘wanting to win’. Maybe the odd time but not regularly. You do it by having better players. That’s what Dyche meant when he answered that journo (rather clumsily I will admit) on playing on the front foot. It’s not a mindset thing, being on the front foot comes from dominating on the pitch with better players. When you don’t have them more often than not you’re on the back foot.

let’s not pretend results aren’t everything. No one gives one how we played for 87 mins v Bournemouth because we lost and had Beto’s shot not hit the bar and come out v Southampton people would have called that a good away performance. If we’d thrown a point away at West Ham by opening up not one person on here would say ‘ah at least we went for it, that can happen’. If we open up 10 times in a row with these players away from home against a better team how many times do you think we win and how many times do you think we lose and all confidence and momentum just gets destroyed?

Right, we can only do the small things in the current circumstances. Once West Ham were on top we were absolutely right not to change anything.

But when West Ham were utterly dire in the first half with zero confidence? Get Ndiaye on the ball in areas he can do more damage, like centrally? Swap him and Lindstrom a couple of times? Move up the pitch and press through Doucoure (this is when we look our best IMO and Branthwaite’s recovery gives us the ability to do so)?

But we get nothing. Absolutely nothing.

We played really well against Bournemouth. But that result has totally reset Dyche to ultra ultra pragmatism when all that really needed to be sorted was getting fresh legs on sooner (Dyche) and smarter game management (the players).

 

[Neiler]

We dominate games?

Yes we were in control of the last two, should have been 6 points instead of 1 and down solely to our execution in goal scoring.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Indeed, though I'd love the reaction to Dyche setting up with a back 5.

Or bringing on a defender "when we should be going for a win"

Would love to see how that lines up as well. Considering Mykolenko and Tarkowski have no pace how do we lay out that back 3? Presumably Tarkowski in the middle and then does Myko go behind Young or Patterson and how long is it before Summerville or Bowen runs into those acres of space?

This stuff all looks good on football manager but as I’ve said before the options aren’t there.

Defenders with no pace
One defender who can pass
Two fit CMs neither with pace
A choice at number 10 of player with no pace who is good on the ball but not off it, or a player good off the ball but not on it.
No pace on the wings.

It all just means less and less options to change games and have credible plan Bs. Meanwhile opposition managers have multitudes because they’ve got genuine options. Soler was at PSG and came on and had a better passing range than any Everton midfielder probably since first season Gomes. Our options to replace Mangala and Gueye…..

 

[Nymzee]

The idea that any manager is going to risk a point away from home in the 75th minute by going two up top is ridiculous.

So basically you have no ambition to ever try win a game of football? Dyche suits you.

 

[derek duvall]

Would love to see how that lines up as well. Considering Mykolenko and Tarkowski have no pace how do we lay out that back 3? Presumably Tarkowski in the middle and then does Myko go behind Young or Patterson and how long is it before Summerville or Bowen runs into those acres of space?

This stuff all looks good on football manager but as I’ve said before the options aren’t there.

Defenders with no pace
One defender who can pass
Two fit CMs neither with pace
A choice at number 10 of player with no pace who is good on the ball but not off it, or a player good off the ball but not on it.
No pace on the wings.

It all just means less and less options to change games and have credible plan Bs. Meanwhile opposition managers have multitudes because they’ve got genuine options. Soler was at PSG and came on and had a better passing range than any Everton midfielder probably since first season Gomes. Our options to replace Mangala and Gueye…..

Would have just been easier to say the players are championship level and the manager is great.

 

[MikeH72]

Indeed, though I'd love the reaction to Dyche setting up with a back 5.

Or bringing on a defender "when we should be going for a win"

Nobody is asking him to set up with a back 5. That’s not what a wing back formation looks like. If he were to set up with a flat black 5 or doesn’t understand how the formation is supposed to be played then once again that’s a Dyche problem and not a formation problem.

 

[MikeH72]

You could of gone a back 3 of Myko, Tarkowski & Branthwaite putting Patterson at RWB and Young LWB

Mangala & Gueye central

With both Harrison & N'Diaye playing more central just behind Beto.

Harrison & N'Diaye can then get closer to the Centre forward than they can out wide still having a wide option using the fullbacks pushing Mangala & Gueye 5 yards further forward as we have the 3 Centre backs to cover

Harrison played left wing back for Bielsa’s Leeds side loads. I think it’s the position that suits him best, and seeing as we have no right winger at all then maybe Patterson as a right wing back suits us and him best as well. Pointless discussing it though because the manager hates his guts and isn’t going to budge on it.

 

[Bob Elstone]

Has he gone yet? Not sure how much of this I can take.

 

[Lanolin]

You could of gone a back 3 of Myko, Tarkowski & Branthwaite putting Patterson at RWB and Young LWB

Mangala & Gueye central

With both Harrison & N'Diaye playing more central just behind Beto.

Harrison & N'Diaye can then get closer to the Centre forward than they can out wide still having a wide option using the fullbacks pushing Mangala & Gueye 5 yards further forward as we have the 3 Centre backs to cover

We could have done that, on paper it sounds like a half decent option worth trying but if you want to seriously tell me that taking Doucoure off for a full back would have been hailed as a good attacking move and everyone would have patted him on the back for it then you are being rather economical with the truth.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Nobody is asking him to set up with a back 5. That’s not what a wing back formation looks like. If he were to set up with a flat black 5 or doesn’t understand how the formation is supposed to be played then once again that’s a Dyche problem and not a formation problem.

I know that Mike, but the point is it's Dyche mate. If he has 5 defenders named, then it's a flat back 5.

If he went with the below, the lineup graphics would definitely have it as a flat back 5, and people would be raging

Pickford
Patterson Tarkowski Branthwaite Mykolenko Young


​

To be fair, I'd like to see that too - but Keane or OBrien for Mykolenko. But it depends massively on Patterson - if he's not fit as he hasnt been for most of the time, or crap, then it falls down.

So I go back to us needing actual full backs.