Should Thelwell be sacked

[ToffeeTim]

who in that front line was a summer transfer from this past season? don't strawman, we're talking about the maupay/mcneil purchases vs the going rate this past summer - mitoma was from summer 2021, when thelwell wasn't even here

There are good players out there for less than £20m if you have good talent spotters at the club. That's the key point.

We do not have a good recruitment team, plain and simple. We never discover the player before they establish themselves.

Our recruitment was just plain lazy. We threw £20m at a lad down the road.

The idea that the going rate for a mediocre player is £20m is the sort of mentality that got us into this mess.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Lampard has been slammed - rightly so - by fans for trying to play possession based which is what you are saying makes Maupay alright.

We don't have players elsewhere on the pitch capable of consistently playing to Maupay's very limited strengths. He's not useless and he's a fine alternative option. He's not a back up to our main striker because our main striker is a completely different type of player.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, if one of your strikers is a Dominic Calvert-Lewin who can't stay fit and the other is Maupay, then you are never going to be able to have a consistent way of playing. That was where the mistake was.

If we'd had already brought in Dom's 'replacement/back up' earlier in August, and Maupay was a nice little extra to change up how we played, then that's fine, he's good for that.

McNeil is honestly good for nothing. I'm not even hating on the lad, he clearly has some modicum of talent but whatever it was was ground out of him at Burnley and he just doesn't seem to have anything to his game to succeed in the modern-day Premier League. He's like a throwback to a mid 2000s player.

As I said in his thread I don't think McNeil is playing well but before I call him the worst player I've ever seen I'd like for him to get maybe 3 months under a manager who knows how to organize a competent team in the middle and attacking thirds. I really can't think of a worse way for an attacking players career to go than Dyche to Lampard.

 

[BlueToff]

As I said in his thread I don't think McNeil is playing well but before I call him the worst player I've ever seen I'd like for him to get maybe 3 months under a manager who knows how to organize a competent team in the middle and attacking thirds. I really can't think of a worse way for an attacking players career to go than Dyche to Lampard.

well it'll probably be Dyche in next mate so I wouldn't hold your breath

As for Maupay, d'you get what I'm saying? If he was like an option for us to be able to mix things up, and we had other players capable of mixing it up, I would be all for it. But he's definitely not the right fit for a direct back up for a 6ft 2 Dom. Just can't play the same way at all.

 

[ToffeeDevil]

There are good players out there for less than £20m if you have good talent spotters at the club. That's the key point.

We do not have a good recruitment team, plain and simple. We never discover the player before they establish themselves.

Our recruitment was just plain lazy. We threw £20m at a lad down the road.

The idea that the going rate for a mediocre player is £20m is the sort of mentality that got us into this mess.

that £20m is what it takes for our excuse for a club to acquire that mediocrity



going back to the whole thelwell question though, he had 1 transfer window, so idk if you can see we (or in this case, he) never discover the player before they establish themselves. the years of crap we've drudged through have led up to this. my original point though is i don't think he's AS culpable as others are. and i don't know if firing him/hiring someone else necessarily fixes this mess we're in

 

[Daytripper]

Heart sank when we payed that money for ONeil. A team desperate for creativity with Richarlison gone and also hasn’t replaced Rodriguez and Sigurddson, we sign a player with a very weak assist and goals return. Made zero sense for me.

It was also telling that the narrative pushed when we signed Maupay was he’s good at winding up defenders. We have a few good wind up merchants on this forum, play them as well then.

We don’t know the full story of what’s gone on but so far this fella is a dud.

 

[TheBigIguana]

well it'll probably be Dyche in next mate so I wouldn't hold your breath

As for Maupay, d'you get what I'm saying? If he was like an option for us to be able to mix things up, and we had other players capable of mixing it up, I would be all for it. But he's definitely not the right fit for a direct back up for a 6ft 2 Dom. Just can't play the same way at all.

I do, however I just hate the idea of playing long and launching crosses no matter who is up top so for me the style should be close enough to something that suits Maupay anyway because if you're hitting so many balls at DCL's head that Maupay is completely useless you're just playing wrong anyway.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Honestly creating the Tarkowski/Coady partnership is more concerning than the attacking part for me

 

[BlueToff]

I do, however I just hate the idea of playing long and launching crosses no matter who is up top so for me the style should be close enough to something that suits Maupay anyway because if you're hitting so many balls at Dominic Calvert-Lewin's head that Maupay is completely useless you're just playing wrong anyway.

No I get that too. But I think we have tried it and we've realised we just can't do it.

Like I think ideally Lampard wants to play a system where he gets his wide men/wide forwards to the byline and they're cutting it back for Maupay or others to slot home.

Yet our wide men are so bad/inconsistent they never do it (and part of that is coaching and tactics) and our full-backs are, well, awful, quite frankly.

It was like trying to run before we could walk. And you have to question everyone who signed off on those decisions - manager and DoF included.

I think the worry with Thelwell was that he never really did the recruitment at Wolves. Maybe the odd signing but it was always about the relationship with Mendes. They didn't really need a head of recruitment, they had his pool of players or other agents who work for him.

 

[Pat Butcher]

Don't think he has any power

 

[Pat Butcher]

Honestly creating the Tarkowski/Coady partnership is more concerning than the attacking part for me

Lampards name all over it, Tarkowski would be decent in a low blow next to Godfrey

Coady famously can't play in a back 4

 

[BlueToff]

who in that front line was a summer transfer from this past season? don't strawman, we're talking about the maupay/mcneil purchases vs the going rate this past summer - mitoma was from summer 2021, when thelwell wasn't even here

Mitoma, he tore us to shreds. Ferguson is an academy player making his what, 2nd PL app? Sarmiento signed for them in 2021 and that was his first PL start.

 

[mightymoyes]

Sack him and the idea of a dof altogether

Thats essentially what we had with the FSW

 

[ToffeeDevil]

Mitoma, he tore us to shreds. Ferguson is an academy player making his what, 2nd PL app? Sarmiento signed for them in 2021 and that was his first PL start.

that doesn't have any relevance to whether thelwell did good or not

if you wanna go down that route, then we should blame frank for not playing tom cannon or vinagre or something, or putting out a well coached team

 

[BlueToff]

that doesn't have any relevance to whether thelwell did good or not

if you wanna go down that route, then we should blame frank for not playing tom cannon or vinagre or something, or putting out a well coached team

You asked if any of the Brighton forwards who started were brought in this summer and one of them was, another is a debutant and another is a full league debutant with 8 previous sub apps to his name.

Coaching needs to be better of course. But also don't spend £30m combined on Maupay and McNeil. Brighton literally didn't spend a penny to replace Maupay because they knew they didn't need to.

 

[ToffeeDevil]

You asked if any of the Brighton forwards who started were brought in this summer and one of them was, another is a debutant and another is a full league debutant with 8 previous sub apps to his name.

Coaching needs to be better of course. But also don't spend £30m combined on Maupay and McNeil. Brighton literally didn't spend a penny to replace Maupay because they knew they didn't need to.

fair, but i think you were mistaken on mitoma - he was aug 2021 (crazy how time flies!)

anyway, i hate us. and while i don't personally think thelwell is the main reason for failure, i guess i'm not really arsed if he's canned. i think he's getting more than he deserves though