"sixth, seventh or eighth the best Everton can do"

[billycopper]

Muddies that "we give youth a chance" image we put across.

He's never used his full squad ever. Vellios, Barkley, Oviedo, and Hitzlsperger are good enough to play in order to rotate the squad.

Agree entirely. Vellios and Barkley might not be ready to start games but they've both looked lively and capable of affecting a game when they have played. Moyes seems to be concerned that a youngster will make a mistake that will cost us a match but that's part of the game. It's not as if we have a long unbeaten run or a title challenge to protect.

Pienaar has been less effective this season, so why not try a few games with Pienaar/Mirallas on the right and Oviedo on the left?

 

[Khalekan]

Again you are using the fact that our manager has put together a squad for naff all money in fees and wages as an argument against that same manager.

It makes no sense.

No spending £760b on a 39 year old Swiss left back would not win us the Champions Leauge.

But adding 10 players (heck even 5 players) of quality on £100k a week would give us a really good chance of picking up 10-20 more points a season which would see us challenging to win things.

And adding those extra 5 players on 100k a week would take our wage bill up to the level paid by Aston Villa so it is hardly beyond what is reasonable to compete.

How is that strategy working out for QPR?


Not very well.

Moral? Paying astronomical wages is no guarantee of success.

I bet Swansea's players are on much less than ours.

But then Swansea appear have a better manager than we have......and I bet he isn't "earning" owt near what the four million dollar man is.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Best way to answer that:



Sums it up perfectly. At the last count, at least five people have answered it.

Here's a thought - if you took 2012 as a calendar year and used that as a league table, Everton would have finished 3rd I believe... So why does that not happen for an "actual" league campaign, given that the only difference between the two would be expectation levels at certain points in the season?

No-one gave a straight answer to that simple question, they just flowered around it avoiding having to name a side that they felt we should be outstripping - you included lad.

As for the calendar year, unless you reviewed all the fixtures then you can't say whether its a fair reflection of an entire season, as it would depend on how the fixtures fell.

 

[Tubey]

No-one gave a straight answer to that simple question, they just flowered around it avoiding having to name a side that they felt we should be outstripping - you included lad.

As for the calendar year, unless you reviewed all the fixtures then you can't say whether its a fair reflection of an entire season, as it would depend on how the fixtures fell.

Just can't take you seriously... Brennan at least came up with ACTUAL factors that may effect the comparison between calendar year and an actual league campaign; your case for the defence is "the luck of the draw"? Not that that applies to every single fixture list drawn up ever or anything!!!

Tell you what mate, your legs must be cold - what with having your pants pulled down and all.

Whenever there's a dead horse that needs beating or some straws that need grasping, I'll remember you're the guy to call.

 

[kenada_blue]

Agree entirely. Vellios and Barkley might not be ready to start games but they've both looked lively and capable of affecting a game when they have played. Moyes seems to be concerned that a youngster will make a mistake that will cost us a match but that's part of the game. It's not as if we have a long unbeaten run or a title challenge to protect.

Pienaar has been less effective this season, so why not try a few games with Pienaar/Mirallas on the right and Oviedo on the left?

The entire team have cost us games this season. Jelavic not scoring chances due to form. Osman's fatigue. Pienaar's form. Coleman's early season naivete. Neville being...Neville. Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga all at fault for goals. Gibson not tracking players. Fellaini losing his men in the box.

Every single one of them culpable for mistakes. So its not a good excuse. Some of these players need a rest.

Vellios should have progressed this season. He scored 4 premier league goals last season FFS

Totally forgot about Duffy too. The lad needs games.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Just can't take you seriously... Brennan at least came up with ACTUAL factors that may effect the comparison between calendar year and an actual league campaign; your case for the defence is "the luck of the draw"? Not that that applies to every single fixture list drawn up ever or anything!!!

Tell you what mate, your legs must be cold - what with having your pants pulled down and all.

Whenever there's a dead horse that needs beating or some straws that need grasping, I'll remember you're the guy to call.

So if we played away at the top 4 & the ****e before Xmas & therefore the start of the calendar year, but the following season those fixtures fell in the second half ie post Xmas & still outside of the calendar year youre using, then this wouldn't impact on the validity of your 'full season' equivalent?

Pull your own kecks up son & when you have try answering the question you've been squirming like a fish on a hook to avoid all day

 

[Tubey]

So if we played away at the top 4 & the ****e before Xmas & therefore the start of the calendar year, but the following season those fixtures fell in the second half ie post Xmas & still outside of the calendar year youre using, then this wouldn't impact on the validity of your 'full season' equivalent?

Pull your own kecks up son & when you have try answering the question you've been squirming like a fish on a hook to avoid all day

Nope, as those variables have a chance of effecting all clubs equally.

Even if that perfect storm did occur, it wouldn't invalidate the sample data, as it had the same chance of afflicting every other club.

Same as the chance of drawing Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs for the first five games of the 2013/14 season is exactly the same for every club next year, as is drawing the three relegated clubs on the spin etc. etc.

 

[peteblue]

It may just be the upset of throwing away 19 points from winning positions, or throwing away 5 points against the likes of Norwich, but I'm fed up with Moyes being 'realistic' and talking the team down. Great managers generate passion and winning mentalities within their teams. Moyes sometimes does that but ALWAYS falls short when it's balls on the line time. Laudrup waltzes in and picks up a trophy with a club that's never won sod all, that's because he was a winner, KKK kicked the sh!te out of Moyes last year with an inferior team because he too is a winner. Davey is a safe pair of hands, full stop, and will never be a winner...........I've had it with the man......

 

[Khalekan]

It may just be the upset of throwing away 19 points from winning positions, or throwing away 5 points against the likes of Norwich, but I'm fed up with Moyes being 'realistic' and talking the team down. Great managers generate passion and winning mentalities within their teams. Moyes sometimes does that but ALWAYS falls short when it's balls on the line time. Laudrup waltzes in and picks up a trophy with a club that's never won sod all, that's because he was a winner, KKK kicked the sh!te out of Moyes last year with an inferior team because he too is a winner. Davey is a safe pair of hands, full stop, and will never be a winner...........I've had it with the man......

Yip....this is why I have gone off him.

He never bigs the team up.

 

[Timak]

How is that strategy working out for QPR?


Not very well.

Moral? Paying astronomical wages is no guarantee of success.

I bet Swansea's players are on much less than ours.

But then Swansea appear have a better manager than we have......and I bet he isn't "earning" owt near what the four million dollar man is.

I really don't know how to explain it any more simply.

The teams that finish above Everton in the league spend £50m-£150m more than Everton every season. That is either a massive coincidence or huge and regular injections of money does guarantee success.

If you think that the reason we don't finish above them is the manager then you are welcome to that opinion. I respectfully disagree.

It seems blindingly obvious to me that the problem is that our manager is not given sufficient support from our board of directors to challenge these clubs.

 

[Timak]

It may just be the upset of throwing away 19 points from winning positions, or throwing away 5 points against the likes of Norwich, but I'm fed up with Moyes being 'realistic' and talking the team down

Yeah except we are also the team that has gained the second most points from losing positions.

http://stats.football365.co.uk/dom/ENG/PR/ptsgain.html

 

[Tubey]

I really don't know how to explain it any more simply.

The teams that finish above Everton in the league spend £50m-£150m more than Everton every season. That is either a massive coincidence or huge and regular injections of money does guarantee success.

If you think that the reason we don't finish above them is the manager then you are welcome to that opinion. I respectfully disagree.

It seems blindingly obvious to me that the problem is that our manager is not given sufficient support from our board of directors to challenge these clubs.

Every single person in this thread agrees with you.

The difference is, you're the only person who thinks that's literally the only factor involved.

To use yet another crap analogy, in your eyes, the matter at hand is black and white. The reality is that it's grey.

If money was the sole factor, you'd pay minimum wage to the groundskeeper to wear a suit on the touchline every week and not bother with a manager.

 

[Chang Elephant]

It may just be the upset of throwing away 19 points from winning positions, or throwing away 5 points against the likes of Norwich, but I'm fed up with Moyes being 'realistic' and talking the team down. Great managers generate passion and winning mentalities within their teams. Moyes sometimes does that but ALWAYS falls short when it's balls on the line time. Laudrup waltzes in and picks up a trophy with a club that's never won sod all, that's because he was a winner, KKK kicked the sh!te out of Moyes last year with an inferior team because he too is a winner. Davey is a safe pair of hands, full stop, and will never be a winner...........I've had it with the man......

I agree Pete, think a lot of us have just kneejerked after year on year on year of insipid ****e.

 

[GwladysBlue]

If we were playing in the FA Cup semi final against Blackburn he'd still try to play down our chances 'Theyre the form team going into this' it really has just gone all too stale. It's time for change and I for one can't wait, the thought of another ten years of this is just horrible.

 

[Khalekan]

I really don't know how to explain it any more simply.

Then don't try.

You have neither the word power nor the writing skills.

And don't try and patronise other fans whom take a different viewpoint to yourself.

What is "blindingly obvious" to you is a hazy fog to others.

Suffice it to say that two non wealthy minor clubs contested a Wembley final yesterday, in a competition we bowed out of in September.

So don't tell me that teams can only achieve success by dint of a "regular injection of money".

We aren't looking for the moon and the stars here, just some bang for our buck.

And by Jove out manager earns plenty of bucks.