"sixth, seventh or eighth the best Everton can do"

[Bruce Wayne]

We have two strikers - one who is out of form and one who is injury prone.

Our rivals have at least 3 and can spend £10m in a blink of an eye to get another in if they need it.

Liverpool have spent £75m on 4 strikers in the last 3 years.

Of course, but we live in the real world rather than the fantasy one where we can do likewise. What options do we have? Can Vellios be improved? The likes of Mirallas and Naismith all scored a decent number of goals at previous clubs, but haven't done so with us. Could that be improved? Could we do more to tighten up at the back?

 

[D410]

What would be interesting is to understand why he thinks that. Whether it's a lack of quality in the side, a lack of depth. Once you understand why you're not producing you can do something about it.

Of course it's quite possible he's saying all of those things, just not in public, but I really hope he's not portraying this kind of negative attitude to the players in private.

Obviously having money can make things much easier, but we clearly don't have that, so have to make up where we can instead.

To use the marginal gains stuff from British Cycling, can our coaches improve our players technically by a few percent? What about their fitness? Maybe tactically we can get better, or do better at producing young players good enough for the first team.

Those things tend to be operational rather than financial. If the back office people did the same, then we might generate a bit more cash to spend on new players as well.

How many football clubs have introduced the DB "maginal gains" ethos into their coaching at the start of this season. - answer none.

I support your idea and it should be looked at to see if marginal gains can translate into points down the road in 2013/2014 season.

 

[D410]

Of course, but we live in the real world rather than the fantasy one where we can do likewise. What options do we have? Can Vellios be improved? The likes of Mirallas and Naismith all scored a decent number of goals at previous clubs, but haven't done so with us. Could that be improved? Could we do more to tighten up at the back?

Yes, but do you also not agree that the clubs above us and around us of countered our player optimization by buying in better players due to our poor fiscal state.

 

[micknick]

Behind the scenes, he instilled a winning mentality.

Moyes says it, he means it

You'd know

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

When SAF plays down expectations it is referred to as reverse psychology,taking pressure of the players and club. When Moyes does something similar it's referred to as small time mentality, lack of ambition etc.

The man is speaking the truth, take of the royal blue specs for a moment and think about it, given our resources it's about as good as we can expect.

Whether or not that is acceptable to the majority of our fan base is irrelevant, it is a statement that reflects reality.

^ THIS

Anyone who can't understand this, or argues that it's not true, are delusional imo.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes, but do you also not agree that the clubs above us and around us of countered our player optimization by buying in better players due to our poor fiscal state.

Don't get me wrong, having lots of money sure makes things a lot easier as you can buy players for the here and now. As the late, great CK Prahalad once said though, innovation comes when you don't have the resources to do what you want.

That's pretty much the only option we have.

 

[MartSlinger]

He's right though isnt he. Simple as that. With the money we've spent im surprised we dont finish lower.

 

[micknick]

He's right though isnt he. Simple as that. With the money we've spent im surprised we dont finish lower.

I agree with this.

People have almost given up moaning about the board as there is nothing happening there so have turned their attentions to Moyes. He is given paltry sums of money year after year and anytime he does have ANYTHING to spend is when he buys a player and sells at a profit.

If Moyes was given a decent transfer kitty and then still didnt make subs until it 'was too late' or playing negative football I'd understand it but he doesnt.

 

[Tubey]

^ THIS

Anyone who can't understand this, or argues that it's not true, are delusional imo.

We've just been beaten by a side whose goalscorers included a guy on loan from the USA who was once a refugee from Sierra Leone and a striker who this time four years ago was playing for Shrewsbury town. Resources, apparently.

We've been managed for over a decade by a manager who has won nothing, whilst Championship sides and newly promoted clubs have got to major finals and on occasion won them.

If the best we can do is sixth, seventh or eighth and no cups over the period of a decade, then by all means call me a deluded - as I'll be calling you small time and a believer that football was invented by Sky in 1992.

It's not delusion, we've underachieved by any measure you care to mention. David Moyes is not the sole reason Everton are in the Premier League, he's not a messiah who will leave us a smouldering wreck that will plummet through the leagues once he leaves. You speak of "royal blue specs"? The "David Moyes specs" are much, much more apparent on here.

 

[Tubey]

He's right though isnt he. Simple as that. With the money we've spent im surprised we dont finish lower.

He's done brilliantly with resources, but that hasn't converted to success on the pitch. If Swansea can win a trophy in a managers first season with modest resources, you'd expect a "world class" manager like Moyes to manage it at least once in 10 years, or at least get to a few more finals.

We can talk about resources all we like, but if we strip it to the bare bones we are one of the top eight clubs in this land in terms of personnel and recent history. Therefore, we've underachieved in cup competitions, and saying "sixth, seventh or eighth" is the "best we can do" is defeatist. We may be at that level, but if you're wanting to be good at your job you aim beyond that level. You don't aim for par, you aim for the birdie, the eagle etc.

 

[nigelcoyb]

^ THIS

Anyone who can't understand this, or argues that it's not true, are delusional imo.

SAF going 10 years without winning anything would get the same remarks as Moyes just as Wenger is finding - actually 2 yrs at Utd without a trophy and you'd be down the road.

 

[Moomin]

He's done brilliantly with resources, but that hasn't converted to success on the pitch. If Swansea can win a trophy in a managers first season with modest resources, you'd expect a "world class" manager like Moyes to manage it at least once in 10 years, or at least get to a few more finals.

We can talk about resources all we like, but if we strip it to the bare bones we are one of the top eight clubs in this land in terms of personnel and recent history. Therefore, we've underachieved in cup competitions, and saying "sixth, seventh or eighth" is the "best we can do" is defeatist. We may be at that level, but if you're wanting to be good at your job you aim beyond that level. You don't aim for par, you aim for the birdie, the eagle etc.

I agree with you're saying, i want to win some silverware. Change can be good, the problem i have is with the decision makers of the new manager. I have no faith in them at all, if they get it wrong it will be a disaster for us.

 

[nigelcoyb]

I agree with you're saying, i want to win some silverware. Change can be good, the problem i have is with the decision makers of the new manager. I have no faith in them at all, if they get it wrong it will be a disaster for us.

This seems the entire problem fans are imbued with fear over what MIGHT happen, can't live life like that. If you think a reasonable league position mostly outside the european places and no trophies is acceptable I'd be surprised.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

We've just been beaten by a side whose goalscorers included a guy on loan from the USA who was once a refugee from Sierra Leone and a striker who this time four years ago was playing for Shrewsbury town. Resources, apparently.

We've been managed for over a decade by a manager who has won nothing, whilst Championship sides and newly promoted clubs have got to major finals and on occasion won them.

If the best we can do is sixth, seventh or eighth and no cups over the period of a decade, then by all means call me a deluded - as I'll be calling you small time and a believer that football was invented by Sky in 1992.

It's not delusion, we've underachieved by any measure you care to mention. David Moyes is not the sole reason Everton are in the Premier League, he's not a messiah who will leave us a smouldering wreck that will plummet through the leagues once he leaves. You speak of "royal blue specs"? The "David Moyes specs" are much, much more apparent on here.

I was stood in Street End when you were an itch in your old mans kecks lad, so don't spout that nonsense at me.

Moyes has done a great job at Everton imo, when he arrived we looked a decent bet for the drop. Moyes has turned that round, whether you like or accept that fact, it's a still a fact. He's raised tha bar in terms of what was deemed as our level, from what it was when he arrived.

I'm sick of reading nads about how we used to win the league & it's 'small time' that we accept where we are now. Those who spout that are living in the past, we can no longer compete financially with clubs who in years gone by we stood toe to toe with - it's a fact! Blame who you like for tha fact, but it's a fact. Until that fact changes i.e. unless someone decides to fund EFC with their hard earned, then the expectation level at EFC can't increase beyond where it is now & have any foothold in reality.

You can blame Moyes all you like, & yes, he makes mistakes, he's far from perfect & at times he frustrates the life out of me, but ask any club fans about their manager & most will tell you the same. All I know about Moyes is that he's been consistently right more than he's been wrong, for over a decade & he's done a fine job on limited resources.

Football is a game of fine margins & unless something changes in the boardroom, imo you'll come to appreciate how Moyes consistently managed those fine margins, when he's moved on & we have the likes of Martinez sat in our dugout.

 

[Tubey]

That's better!

I'm not saying Moyes has done a bad job - I'm saying he's done nothing special, nothing to justify the devotion, nothing to label him a "great" manager.

He's worked on limited resources, and that's his greatest strength, but he hasn't converted that on the pitch.

I'll call it a "conversion ratio". How many times have we started a season badly but ended solidly, and vice versa? There's no logical reason for it other than mentality and man management. How many times has a cup draw opened up and we've thrown it away? How many games against the top sides have we not turned up against? How many important, season making games against lesser oppositions have we bottled it against?

That's the reason I say it's small time to say David Moyes has done a fine job - because he hasn't; he's tread water for his entire reign at the club.