"sixth, seventh or eighth the best Everton can do"

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Swearing doesn't make your point any more valid mate.

I've changed it just for you mate.

 

[Tubey]

I've changed it just for you mate.

Actually I was doing you a favour to avoid the needless infraction - we're talking about something like adults.

Repost of last message below:

-----

That's better!

I'm not saying Moyes has done a bad job - I'm saying he's done nothing special, nothing to justify the devotion, nothing to label him a "great" manager.

He's worked on limited resources, and that's his greatest strength, but he hasn't converted that on the pitch.

I'll call it a "conversion ratio". How many times have we started a season badly but ended solidly, and vice versa? There's no logical reason for it other than mentality and man management. How many times has a cup draw opened up and we've thrown it away? How many games against the top sides have we not turned up against? How many important, season making games against lesser oppositions have we bottled it against?

That's the reason I say it's small time to say David Moyes has done a fine job - because he hasn't; he's tread water for his entire reign at the club.

 

[TheFinnFan]

I was stood in Street End when you were an itch in your old mans kecks lad, so don't spout that nonsense at me.

Moyes has done a great job at Everton imo, when he arrived we looked a decent bet for the drop. Moyes has turned that round, whether you like or accept that fact, it's a still a fact. He's raised tha bar in terms of what was deemed as our level, from what it was when he arrived.

I'm sick of reading nads about how we used to win the league & it's 'small time' that we accept where we are now. Those who spout that are living in the past, we can no longer compete financially with clubs who in years gone by we stood toe to toe with - it's a fact! Blame who you like for tha fact, but it's a fact. Until that fact changes i.e. unless someone decides to fund EFC with their hard earned, then the expectation level at EFC can't increase beyond where it is now & have any foothold in reality.

You can blame Moyes all you like, & yes, he makes mistakes, he's far from perfect & at times he frustrates the life out of me, but ask any club fans about their manager & most will tell you the same. All I know about Moyes is that he's been consistently right more than he's been wrong, for over a decade & he's done a fine job on limited resources.

Football is a game of fine margins & unless something changes in the boardroom, imo you'll come to appreciate how Moyes consistently managed those fine margins, when he's moved on & we have the likes of Martinez sat in our dugout.

ace post mate.

+Now I know what kecks are x

 

[Tubey]

ace post mate.

+Now I know what kecks are x

Except it's not, is it? Not really.

Is the expectation amongst Everton fans really "sixth seventh or eighth" and no cups? Is expecting a few more League and FA Cup finals from a side who are amongst the top eight clubs in the land an expectation that has no "foothold in reality"? Is expecting a "world class" manager to trust his own ability and that of his squad to aim for the top four and "get an eagle for the course" completely delusional?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I was stood in Street End when you were an itch in your old mans kecks lad, so don't spout that nonsense at me.

Moyes has done a great job at Everton imo, when he arrived we looked a decent bet for the drop. Moyes has turned that round, whether you like or accept that fact, it's a still a fact. He's raised tha bar in terms of what was deemed as our level, from what it was when he arrived.

I'm sick of reading nads about how we used to win the league & it's 'small time' that we accept where we are now. Those who spout that are living in the past, we can no longer compete financially with clubs who in years gone by we stood toe to toe with - it's a fact! Blame who you like for tha fact, but it's a fact. Until that fact changes i.e. unless someone decides to fund EFC with their hard earned, then the expectation level at EFC can't increase beyond where it is now & have any foothold in reality.

You can blame Moyes all you like, & yes, he makes mistakes, he's far from perfect & at times he frustrates the life out of me, but ask any club fans about their manager & most will tell you the same. All I know about Moyes is that he's been consistently right more than he's been wrong, for over a decade & he's done a fine job on limited resources.

Football is a game of fine margins & unless something changes in the boardroom, imo you'll come to appreciate how Moyes consistently managed those fine margins, when he's moved on & we have the likes of Martinez sat in our dugout.

Great job, no doubt.

But if he leaves at the end of the season, history will define his time at Everton as a failure...

 

[kenada_blue]

What would be interesting is to understand why he thinks that. Whether it's a lack of quality in the side, a lack of depth. Once you understand why you're not producing you can do something about it.

Of course it's quite possible he's saying all of those things, just not in public, but I really hope he's not portraying this kind of negative attitude to the players in private.

Obviously having money can make things much easier, but we clearly don't have that, so have to make up where we can instead.

To use the marginal gains stuff from British Cycling, can our coaches improve our players technically by a few percent? What about their fitness? Maybe tactically we can get better, or do better at producing young players good enough for the first team.

Those things tend to be operational rather than financial. If the back office people did the same, then we might generate a bit more cash to spend on new players as well.

He also made that odd comment about the German youth system. Completely missing out that he could do the same with us.

 

[ijjysmith]

Great job, no doubt.

But if he leaves at the end of the season, history will define his time at Everton as a failure...

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Except it's not, is it? Not really.

Is the expectation amongst Everton fans really "sixth seventh or eighth" and no cups? Is expecting a few more League and FA Cup finals from a side who are amongst the top eight clubs in the land an expectation that has no "foothold in reality"? Is expecting a "world class" manager to trust his own ability and that of his squad to aim for the top four and "get an eagle for the course" completely delusional?

Statistically speaking, cup finals should be competed for by the best two sides in the land, so I'd say seeing the 7/8th best side getting there is a blip more than anything. If you take the Swanseas and Portsmouths who have achieved it, they've generally only done so once. They didn't repeat it. We also got to a final, but unlike those two, we played Chelsea in it rather than Cardiff and Bradford. I dare say if we had played one of those, then we'd have won a trophy as well.

If you are outside of the big clubs, winning a trophy is often a result of a perfect storm blowing your way.

 

[Tubey]

Statistically speaking, cup finals should be competed for by the best two sides in the land, so I'd say seeing the 7/8th best side getting there is a blip more than anything.

During Moyes reign, from my quick check there's only been one occasion where the FA Cup final has been contested by the two sides who finished 1st and 2nd that season in the Premier League, which was 2006/07.

During that time, Southampton, Millwall, West Ham, Cardiff, Portsmouth and Stoke City have contested FA Cup finals.

EDIT: Oh, and Everton once!

 

[Little Ralphy]

Statistically speaking, cup finals should be competed for by the best two sides in the land, so I'd say seeing the 7/8th best side getting there is a blip more than anything. If you take the Swanseas and Portsmouths who have achieved it, they've generally only done so once. They didn't repeat it. We also got to a final, but unlike those two, we played Chelsea in it rather than Cardiff and Bradford. I dare say if we had played one of those, then we'd have won a trophy as well.

If you are outside of the big clubs, winning a trophy is often a result of a perfect storm blowing your way.

In fairness Swansea beat Chelsea at the bridge and the rs at anfield, something we haven't managed. Bradford knocked out Arsenal, Villa and Wigan. The final may have been one sided but neither side was gifted an easy cup run.

 

[micknick]

Can't disagree with that.

I completely disagree with that.

From relegation fodder to competing for Europe with no money. If he does leave he will leave us in a state a million miles from when he took over so in my eyes it has been successful.

 

[bignev23]

ace post mate.

+Now I know what kecks are x

They're trousers mate(not nuts)

Can't disagree with that.

I wouldn't say its been a faliure.Its been decent for me.I mean its not like Mike Walker or hk 3 or Walter Smith is it.It does lack one major thing though which is silverware.

 

[Timak]

During Moyes reign, from my quick check there's only been one occasion where the FA Cup final has been contested by the two sides who finished 1st and 2nd that season in the Premier League, which was 2006/07.

During that time, Southampton, Millwall, West Ham, Cardiff, Portsmouth and Stoke City have contested FA Cup finals.

EDIT: Oh, and Everton once!

And how many of them have won the cup?

Portsmouth, once, when they faced Cardiff in the final.

Still waiting for your answer about which clubs Everton should have finished above in the last 6 years.

Because it would be a pretty spectacular achievement to have gone 6 years without being outperformed by another club.

 

[ijjysmith]

OK maybe failure is a tad harsh.

But he took us from relegation possibles to relatively decent quite early in the 11 years. But for the rest it's all been a bit samey for one reason or another.

 

[Timak]

I completely disagree with that.

From relegation fodder to competing for Europe with no money. If he does leave he will leave us in a state a million miles from when he took over so in my eyes it has been successful.

I worry about the mental state of some of our fans.

If I were to rate the club as a whole it would go:

Manager 9/10
Players 7/10
Owners 1/10

Yet they devote so much time abusing the best thing about this club and ignore the main problem.

I've had dealing with the owners through my time helping KEIOC. Believe me, the issues with this club go FAR deeper than Moyes not bringing Barkely on against Cheltenham or whatever heinous footballing crime is Moyes' latest travesty.