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"The fans wanted him sacked"

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davek said:
His career shows how he revolutionised a backwater club in Wales and put the foundations in that they rest on today as an established PL club; went to Wigan and won them their first meaningful trophy ever; came to Everton and handed us our best top flight total since the PL began.

Only a fool would fail to respect that.
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So, he's a revolutionary dream-weaver & legacy builder who deserves our respect based solely on the past?

It's so clear now...

*you've been sat on your commode too long mate, get some air, have a game of Volley's & Headers in the yard*
 
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Bally1960 said:
He's useless and the people championing him as the man to lead the Revival next season will be in for dissapointment when it's a side of:

Barry Mccarthy Cleverly

Lennon Lukaku Naismith

Doing nothing and stuck in mid table. Paul Lambert at villa is exactly how it will go down, sticking with a poor manager who won't change things around.

The likes of Mirallas out with goals and assists and cleverly and lennon in with no end product says it all about where we are heading.
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i prefer to wait instead of jumping to conclusions tbh. he got out record PL (when football starterd :S) points total. it's the first year he's ever managed in europe as well as the league, of course he'll make mistakes. granted those mistakes baffle me massively, but i'll wait until we actually end up with a front 6 like that before fuming.
 

TheHumbleEgg said:
So, he's a revolutionary dream-weaver & legacy builder who deserves our respect based solely on the past?

It's so clear now...

*you've been sat on your commode too long mate, get some air, have a game of Volliey's & Headers in the yard*
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No. no...how could we form a relevant opinion on him from his recent past achievements...we must do so on the basis of the past few months instead.

Lol.

You're a strange one.
 
davek said:
His career shows how he revolutionised a backwater club in Wales and put the foundations in that they rest on today as an established PL club; went to Wigan and won them their first meaningful trophy ever; came to Everton and handed us our best top flight total since the PL began.

Only a fool would fail to respect that.
Click to expand...

I don't buy the arguments of managers laying foundations for others to achieve on. Where does it end? Did Moyes lay the foundations for Martinez last season? or for this season even? How can Swansea's success still be attributed to Martinez when 4 managers have passed between since? Mourinho is one of the most dominating characters of all et how long did it take Scolari to dismantle what he built? AVB to dismantle Ancelotti's work (or was his success still Mourinho's?). Why is Luis Enrique having to completely redefine Barcelona to get some results out of them when Guardiola's memory is not that far gone?

From the moment a manager walks in he is responsible. How did Moyes take a team of champions and reduce them to 7th, equally how did he take a relegation threatened side and get them to fourth. Perosnality, tactics, mindset, player selections. They have an instant impact. Martinez deserves the credit he got last season and he is deserving of the criticism he gets this one. Any future success he has will be his as will any future failures. Attributing Swansea's success to Martinez is just as stupid as attributing it to Rodgers, he was the one who got them into the premier league and he was the one immediately followed by Laudrup. Of course their success is the accumulation of good seasons in a row by Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and now Monk rather than one laying the foundations for the others to sponge off. Managers make their own teams. If someone rolls into Everton tomorrow and wins the league next season is he building off Roberto's foundations?
 
That team had a set of balls, not like these lilly-livered wimps. They also had the best goal keeper in the world- we don't now.
 
davek said:
No. no...how could we form a relevant opinion on him from his recent past achievements...we must do so on the basis of the past few months instead.

Lol.

You're a strange one.
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Quite, yes, let's disregard these few months entirely and deem them merely a bi-product of 'managerial indigestion', hopefully he'll have a good hard fart & a clear-out and all will be well again.

You seem to consider his past achievements as last season only, almost discounting completely the fact that concern with a lot of fans has been raised based on the lull since and his tinkering's prior taking the wheel here...
 

Saint Domingo said:
I don't buy the arguments of managers laying foundations for others to achieve on. Where does it end? Did Moyes lay the foundations for Martinez last season? or for this season even? How can Swansea's success still be attributed to Martinez when 4 managers have passed between since? Mourinho is one of the most dominating characters of all et how long did it take Scolari to dismantle what he built? AVB to dismantle Ancelotti's work (or was his success still Mourinho's?). Why is Luis Enrique having to completely redefine Barcelona to get some results out of them when Guardiola's memory is not that far gone?

From the moment a manager walks in he is responsible. How did Moyes take a team of champions and reduce them to 7th, equally how did he take a relegation threatened side and get them to fourth. Perosnality, tactics, mindset, player selections. They have an instant impact. Martinez deserves the credit he got last season and he is deserving of the criticism he gets this one. Any future success he has will be his as will any future failures. Attributing Swansea's success to Martinez is just as stupid as attributing it to Rodgers, he was the one who got them into the premier league and he was the one immediately followed by Laudrup. Of course their success is the accumulation of good seasons in a row by Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and now Monk rather than one laying the foundations for the others to sponge off. Managers make their own teams. If someone rolls into Everton tomorrow and wins the league next season is he building off Roberto's foundations?
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You have to be kidding with those parallels?

Swansea were an empty shell when Martinez grabbed hold of that club. He was fundamental to it's rise again.
 
SunKing said:
I must admit I've knee-jerked more than once recently and wanted Martinez out, more out of frustration than anything else. History tells you though that given time managers can build success. Look at Spurs over the years, constantly sacking at the slightest whiff of poor form. They all love Pochetino but what's the chances next season they suffer the same fate as us and struggle at some point...I wonder how they'll react.

He deserves time given how we performed last season, if we'd muddled about mid-table last year then had the season we are having now then there would be just reasons for him getting the chop. But we've seen the potential.

I'm by no means 'sold' on him as our league performance this season has been utterly awful. But I'm willing to let him try winning us round again. We're not going to get relegated so let's write off this league campaign and focus on next season - not forgetting Europe of course.

I'm actually really looking forward to this run in now, I may be being naive but I fancy us to beat Kiev, then Newcastle and pick up form all over.
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were you one of the scores of people who PM'd Davek?
 
davek said:
The point is that he was in the job two and a half years at that point and done nothing much, then it came together.
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We have had lots of managers here for more than two and a half years as well who it hasn't came together for. It could go either way for him.
I hope he does get it together, last season was a joy to watch until the later stages and I'd put up with less than that. He needs points on the table whatever way he can at the minute or it could snowball.
 
TheHumbleEgg said:
Quite, yes, let's disregard these few months entirely and deem them merely a bi-product of 'managerial indigestion', hopefully he'll have a good hard fart & a clear-out and all will be well again.

You seem to consider his past achievements as last season only, almost discounting completely the fact that concern with a lot of fans has been raised based on the lull since and his tinkering's prior taking the wheel here...
Click to expand...

I dont discount that concern. It's legitimate.

You seem to think you know my position on this issue and it's clear you dont. You're reading what you want to believe is there rather than what is.
 

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