TIM HOWARD THOUGH

[SNova]

I feel RM is to blame regarding TH by putting him into the first team acclaiming he had to, as TH was the No 1 keeper irrespective of Robles performances ie three clean sheets - was it ever mentioned by the manager or the incoming Tim?
TH gave the worst performance of goal keeping this season at home to bottom club Leicester- no blame for two parried crosses - maybe he knows he has lost some respect from the crowd , and his defenders? Hence TH poor form he should be dropped!
It was the Managers choice, and for the first time, and other players dropped unnecessary I am losing a bit of confidence in RM as he is picking names, and not form players!

Weirdly he didn't apply this same principle to Stones and Alcaraz. Maybe he doesn't want to hurt Howard's feelings.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Can Batman play in goal ??

You know Adam & Gordon could be long lost brothers. Gordon played like he was batman at times. Great keeper for Catterick.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Forget this worst keeper in the league. It's way off the mark.


More like the worst goalkeeper in the history of football.

 

[Toffeelover]

Forget this worst keeper in the league. It's way off the mark.


More like the worst goalkeeper in the history of football.

Oh man, that had me in stitches.

 

[ijjysmith]

McGregor?
Heaton?
Guzan?
Pantimillion?
Speroni?
Adrian?

All considerably better than Tim Howard.

Most by some distance.

 

[Dymak]

This is baffling, what makes you think he's "scared"? What's more likely, the man who's paid millions to make these decisions is making poor decisions out of fear, or that the man who's paid millions to make these decisions has better insights into the condition of the players than some bloke named Dymak on the internet who's been paid exactly fvck all for his opinions across his entire life?

Ah, the he is paid to be a manager and therefore he must be correct argument. The truth is that managers up and down the land make bad decisions, and receiving a wage does not exempt them from doing so.

Loads of managers allow their actions to be effected by favouritism and nepotism etc, and Bobby is clearly one of them, unless you think their was a legitimate reason for swapping a keeper who had kept three clean sheets in a row with a keeper who jumps out of the way of the ball when someone shoots at him?

My profession is totally irrelevant to this discussion, but I actually get paid to document my opinion on far more important matters than football, and my opinion doesn't come as cheap as you think it does. I can still make incorrect or unprofessional decisions though, and how much I am paid doesn't change that.

 

[ijjysmith]

Mannone.

There we go. Thought of one.

Well done me.

 

[maccavennie]

Ah, the he is paid to be a manager and therefore he must be correct argument. The truth is that managers up and down the land make bad decisions, and receiving a wage does not exempt them from doing so.

Loads of managers allow their actions to be effected by favouritism and nepotism etc, and Bobby is clearly one of them, unless you think their was a legitimate reason for swapping a keeper who had kept three clean sheets in a row with a keeper who jumps out of the way of the ball when someone shoots at him?

My profession is totally irrelevant to this discussion, but I actually get paid to document my opinion on far more important matters than football, and my opinion doesn't come as cheap as you think it does. I can still make incorrect or unprofessional decisions though, and how much I am paid doesn't change that.

I'm glad I didn't have to pay for your opinion....though it is absolutely spot on.

If all managers were correct then no one would be sacked. The simple truth is managers are flawed and have their favourites. Martinez is no different unfortunately and in choosing the same players not deserving of a first team place is in turn making the same mistakes that at some point in the future will cost him his job if poor performances continued.

I personally struggle to think of a keeper in worse form than Howard in the league tbh, but saying that I don't watch other teams keepers game in game out. He's had as bad a season as we could have envisaged but I could say that about 5 or 6 players so I'm not going to just lay the blame on Tim.

But it is a thread about Tim so yeah he's absolutely gash imo and I don't have any starry eyed memories of him where I'm willing to give him another season. First thing Martinez needs to do is ship this fella out and purchase a top quality keeper.

p.s the above sounds like I'm arguing against you, I'm not I'm agreeing with your 2 previous posts

 

[toffeestillidie]

Ah, the he is paid to be a manager and therefore he must be correct argument. The truth is that managers up and down the land make bad decisions, and receiving a wage does not exempt them from doing so.

Loads of managers allow their actions to be effected by favouritism and nepotism etc, and Bobby is clearly one of them, unless you think their was a legitimate reason for swapping a keeper who had kept three clean sheets in a row with a keeper who jumps out of the way of the ball when someone shoots at him?

My profession is totally irrelevant to this discussion, but I actually get paid to document my opinion on far more important matters than football, and my opinion doesn't come as cheap as you think it does. I can still make incorrect or unprofessional decisions though, and how much I am paid doesn't change that.

It's not just that he is paid to do it, it's that he has access to information that you don't have. You're assuming that he's not making his decision on the basis of this additional information, but that he makes them out of favoritism / fear, when there's no direct evidence of that. My point wasn't that he's paid more and therefore he's right, it's that by virtue of his position, he's entrusted with far more information than we have as fans on the outside looking in.

It's fine if you disagree with his decisions, I disagree with things that plenty of managers do, Martinez included. But it's quite another thing to invent reasons for the decisions they make (he's too scared to drop Howard, for instance), and disagree with their decisions on that basis. For all you know Robles routinely cocks up simple shots in training and that's why he's been dropped so promptly. Pure speculation, but it's easily as likely as the scenario that you've invented where Martinez is simply afraid to drop a player that pretty much the whole world is screaming at him to drop.

 

[Dymak]

It's not just that he is paid to do it, it's that he has access to information that you don't have. You're assuming that he's not making his decision on the basis of this additional information, but that he makes them out of favoritism / fear, when there's no direct evidence of that. My point wasn't that he's paid more and therefore he's right, it's that by virtue of his position, he's entrusted with far more information than we have as fans on the outside looking in.

It's fine if you disagree with his decisions, I disagree with things that plenty of managers do, Martinez included. But it's quite another thing to invent reasons for the decisions they make (he's too scared to drop Howard, for instance), and disagree with their decisions on that basis. For all you know Robles routinely cocks up single shots in training and that's why he's been dropped so promptly. Pure speculation, but it's easily as likely as the scenario that you've invented where Martinez is simply afraid to drop a player that pretty much the whole world is screaming at him to drop.

So we agree that there are a few possibilities as to why Martinez chose to replace a keeper that had kept three clean sheets in a row with a keeper who jumps out of the way of a ball when someone shoots at him.

You have spoken about the possibility of Martinez witnessing Howard perform good in training. I have spoken about the possibility of favouritism being applied, and the possibility that Martinez is too scared to drop Howard because he fears the reaction of the clique in the dressing room.

You obviously think it is more likely that Martinez made this decision based on Howard's training ground performances, I disagree and think it more to do with him being scared as to how some of the players would react, which is extremely poor management.

 

[toffeestillidie]

So we agree that there are a few possibilities as to why Martinez chose to replace a keeper that had kept three clean sheets in a row with a keeper who jumps out of the way of a ball when someone shoots at him.

You have spoken about the possibility of Martinez witnessing Howard perform good in training. I have spoken about the possibility of favouritism being applied, and the possibility that Martinez is too scared to drop Howard because he fears the reaction of the clique in the dressing room.

You obviously think it is more likely that Martinez made this decision based on Howard's training ground performances, I disagree and think it more to do with him being scared as to how some of the players would react, which is extremely poor management.

No, I didn't say because Howard performed well in training, I said it's because Robles may be performing poorly. Did you see him last season? Robles was utterly useless, and he wasn't great in his first couple starts this season either. Is it inconceivable that he often looks like that in training? He played very well against West Ham but he made 0 saves against West Brom, didn't have a whole lot to do against Palace, and we played a deliberately stifling style against the sh*te, in part to protect him.

And I don't agree that Howard "jumps out of the way of the ball", during his horrid stretch of form he's still made several important stops. In a one-on-one situation I would still take Howard over Robles. The area where Howard is worst is probably flapping at crosses, and Robles hasn't really shown himself to be great at cutting out crosses either (have a look at the Robles threads from last season if you don't believe me).

If it were my decision, based on the information I had at the time, I would have started Robles against Chelsea and stuck with him til he made a mistake. Apparently you would have too. Martinez acted otherwise. The difference between us is that you assumed he made his decision for the wrong reasons, whereas I'll point to my own deficit of knowledge about the day-to-day performance of the players as a reason why my own opinions would differ from the manager's.

edit: and that's just one example, there are plenty of other possible reasons for why Martinez would stick with Howard that don't point to favouritism.

 

[Toffeelover]

The talent to go asleep at any moment.

Look at him ! He does it with ease.

I am sure inline with the that comment, Howard has his eyes closed!

 

[Dymak]

No, I didn't say because Howard performed well in training, I said it's because Robles may be performing poorly. Did you see him last season? Robles was utterly useless, and he wasn't great in his first couple starts this season either. Is it inconceivable that he often looks like that in training? He played very well against West Ham but he made 0 saves against West Brom, didn't have a whole lot to do against Palace, and we played a deliberately stifling style against the sh*te, in part to protect him.

And I don't agree that Howard "jumps out of the way of the ball", during his horrid stretch of form he's still made several important stops. In a one-on-one situation I would still take Howard over Robles. The area where Howard is worst is probably flapping at crosses, and Robles hasn't really shown himself to be great at cutting out crosses either (have a look at the Robles threads from last season if you don't believe me).

If it were my decision, based on the information I had at the time, I would have started Robles against Chelsea and stuck with him til he made a mistake. Apparently you would have too. Martinez acted otherwise. The difference between us is that you assumed he made his decision for the wrong reasons, whereas I'll point to my own deficit of knowledge about the day-to-day performance of the players as a reason why my own opinions would differ from the manager's.

Yeah, so you accept that it is a possibility that Martinez is too scared to drop Howard, we just don't know for sure as we aren't privy to what goes on behind the scenes.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

No, I didn't say because Howard performed well in training, I said it's because Robles may be performing poorly. Did you see him last season? Robles was utterly useless, and he wasn't great in his first couple starts this season either. Is it inconceivable that he often looks like that in training? He played very well against West Ham but he made 0 saves against West Brom, didn't have a whole lot to do against Palace, and we played a deliberately stifling style against the sh*te, in part to protect him.

And I don't agree that Howard "jumps out of the way of the ball", during his horrid stretch of form he's still made several important stops. In a one-on-one situation I would still take Howard over Robles. The area where Howard is worst is probably flapping at crosses, and Robles hasn't really shown himself to be great at cutting out crosses either (have a look at the Robles threads from last season if you don't believe me).

If it were my decision, based on the information I had at the time, I would have started Robles against Chelsea and stuck with him til he made a mistake. Apparently you would have too. Martinez acted otherwise. The difference between us is that you assumed he made his decision for the wrong reasons, whereas I'll point to my own deficit of knowledge about the day-to-day performance of the players as a reason why my own opinions would differ from the manager's.

edit: and that's just one example, there are plenty of other possible reasons for why Martinez would stick with Howard that don't point to favouritism.

Do you take great pride in being 100% wrong all the time?

Barely fair to call Robles useless last season. He was in and out of the team and never got a run of games which is very important for a goalkeeper. Admittedly he was bad against Arsenal in the cup.

On him not having to do a lot in the games where he kept clean sheets. West Brom, he didn't have a lot to do but there's plenty of times this season where Howard hasn't had a lot to do. On Sunday QPR had 1 shot on target all game and it goes in. Same thing happened against Hull at home, 1 shot on target and he lets it in at his near post. I don't get why it should be held against Joel that he does the simple things right. Something which Howard spectacularly fails at time and time again.

For Palace away didn't you see all the long balls they aimed into our box. Robles claimed everything that day. He took a huge amount of pressure off our defence that day and was a massive part of our first win of 2015. He was one of the best players on the park that day. Watch that game again with your eyes open and tell me that he flaps at crosses.

RS at home he made important stops from Gerrard and Ibe.

Even if Howard is world class in training Martinez should have realised by now by actually using his eyes that Robles is the infinitely better option when it comes to the actual games.

In conclusion, LOL at you.

 

[joey_macmo]

So much wrong in just one post.

Howard has easily been the worst keeper in the league. Have you blotted out mistakes against Chelsea (h) x 2, Palace x 2, Hull, Tottenham, QPR at home, Leicester x 2, Liverpool and United away etc.

I also don't get this people making excuses for Robles. He's made very few mistakes and none of them bar 1 leading to goals. He's also kept only 1 fewer clean sheets than Howard in 16 less games. As well as being infinitely superior to Howard in every aspect.

hull & krasnodar & 3 clean sheets to Howards 7.

lets not start making things up again