Nobody is saying he is superman but he has done a great job for us surely you can see that
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Nobody is saying he is superman but he has done a great job for us surely you can see that
Ghost, you are rewriting history to suit your own purposes.
We didn't replace Kilbane with Pienaar (arguably we still haven't replaced him with Pienaar) but with Osman, who I am sure you were also suitably down on at the time.
Nobody, not one single person here, has said that we won't need to eventually replace Carsley. And yes, it would be nice to have an upgrade for him when we do. But the question is not a Fantasy Football one, it is how you use your resources.
At the moment, you were calling for Carsley to be dropped from the side. Would you rather have Vidarsson playing? Or Kissock? Or da Silva? Or VDM? Or would you rather have the money that potentially is earmarked for Pienaar or Fernandes or a central defender being used to bring in Sidwell or Sean Davis?
With the side that we have, I am confident that we have the potential to get to the League Cup final, to a UEFA Cup final, to fourth place in the League. Whether we do or not is partly luck and partly a gamble. Do we gamble our (limited) funds on a replacement for part of the team that many consider to be an essential cog? Do we go for an injection of funds from the Nawab of Tashkent so we can buy in Hargreaves? Or do we carry on doing what you have repeatedly called for - i.e. trusting in the slow and steady improvement in the squad that DM is bringing about?
(If you think things are getting personal, it's probably because people want to enjoy being in fourth place and grinding out a win at a place that we previously might have lost at. No, that doesn't mean we don't - just like you - want better, but - unlike you - we like to savour a victory rather than filling the place with bile.)
We didn't replace Kilbane with Pienaar (arguably we still haven't replaced him with Pienaar) but with Osman, who I am sure you were also suitably down on at the time.
Nobody, not one single person here, has said that we won't need to eventually replace Carsley. And yes, it would be nice to have an upgrade for him when we do. But the question is not a Fantasy Football one, it is how you use your resources.
At the moment, you were calling for Carsley to be dropped from the side. Would you rather have Vidarsson playing? Or Kissock? Or da Silva? Or VDM? Or would you rather have the money that potentially is earmarked for Pienaar or Fernandes or a central defender being used to bring in Sidwell or Sean Davis?
With the side that we have, I am confident that we have the potential to get to the League Cup final, to a UEFA Cup final, to fourth place in the League. Whether we do or not is partly luck and partly a gamble. Do we gamble our (limited) funds on a replacement for part of the team that many consider to be an essential cog? Do we go for an injection of funds from the Nawab of Tashkent so we can buy in Hargreaves? Or do we carry on doing what you have repeatedly called for - i.e. trusting in the slow and steady improvement in the squad that DM is bringing about?
(If you think things are getting personal, it's probably because people want to enjoy being in fourth place and grinding out a win at a place that we previously might have lost at. No, that doesn't mean we don't - just like you - want better, but - unlike you - we like to savour a victory rather than filling the place with bile.)
Mate I cant comment on behalf others get the feeling that this thread just wanted to talk about more than one player.
I havent got a problem with many of the things that have been said re Carsley, and actually agree with them.
For what its worth I thought he had a poorish game today. But he was one of several players who had a poor game.
I'd personally just prefer an attacking player if we've got the choice of one or the other, and for the rest of the season not have to see Cars (or defensive new boy) and Neville together in midfield. And am happy to let it rest there - same on any subject.
My beef comes from being TALKED TO IN CAPS, being quoted without my post being read, and thats why i've put the shutters up on that dialogue.
zero
Player Valuation: £30m
Yeah, I agree he's doing alright against some teams.... but if there was a place in the team that needed improving more then any other place it would be his place.
Carsley is supposed to be a defensive midfielder what he actually offers us is sort of like a reverse sweeper, whilst he is good at what he does and it works against some teams his lack of attacking nouse is a pain in the ass though he can only pass a ball sideways or backwards and you'll never see him perform a defence splitting pass like other defensive midfielders do.
Basically I look at the top four and I think yeah Howard is as good as Van Der Sar, Arteta is our Ronaldo, Carsley is our Hargreaves....erm no that doesn't quite fit for me. I want someone as good as Hargreaves. I'm not saying Arteta is as good as Ronaldo, even though sometimes he can be. Its just Carsley is nowhere near the player Hargreaves is. ever.
Carsley is supposed to be a defensive midfielder what he actually offers us is sort of like a reverse sweeper, whilst he is good at what he does and it works against some teams his lack of attacking nouse is a pain in the ass though he can only pass a ball sideways or backwards and you'll never see him perform a defence splitting pass like other defensive midfielders do.
Basically I look at the top four and I think yeah Howard is as good as Van Der Sar, Arteta is our Ronaldo, Carsley is our Hargreaves....erm no that doesn't quite fit for me. I want someone as good as Hargreaves. I'm not saying Arteta is as good as Ronaldo, even though sometimes he can be. Its just Carsley is nowhere near the player Hargreaves is. ever.
I'm agreeing with you, I meant that arguing about carsley is like banging your head against a brick wall because no matter how hard you try to convince people that he isn't superman they will still say your talking bollocks.
Mate thats a bit much, we all have different opinions on Carsley and your and Ghosts are as vailid as anyones. But the point of this place is to argue points of view regarding something we dearly love. Its not to convince, or badger other people around to your way of thinking!
Becoming frustrated or venting (banging your head of a wall) jsut really unsetles the whole friendliness of the forum and for me comments like that are not helpfull. Im not a mod but im fed up of decent threads being spoiled by us all (i include myself in this) bickering!
Like i say you and Ghost could be right about Casley and you probably think you are like i do being a fan of his. I enjoy reading both you posts because i like getting a well rouded view of the issues. Can we not all just say fair enough this ones split, lets move on! Id like to think we're all mates here, but lately i think thigs have gone a bit to fair, and i think comments like banging you r head of a brick wall are just read rags to people.
Like i say im not one for conflict just wanted to make this point, and im not picking on you, i include everyone on the forum including myself. Im not looking for a row!
Mate thats a bit much, we all have different opinions on Carsley and your and Ghosts are as vailid as anyones. But the point of this place is to argue points of view regarding something we dearly love. Its not to convince, or badger other people around to your way of thinking!
Becoming frustrated or venting (banging your head of a wall) jsut really unsetles the whole friendliness of the forum and for me comments like that are not helpfull. Im not a mod but im fed up of decent threads being spoiled by us all (i include myself in this) bickering!
Like i say you and Ghost could be right about Casley and you probably think you are like i do being a fan of his. I enjoy reading both you posts because i like getting a well rouded view of the issues. Can we not all just say fair enough this ones split, lets move on! Id like to think we're all mates here, but lately i think thigs have gone a bit to fair, and i think comments like banging you r head of a brick wall are just read rags to people.
Like i say im not one for conflict just wanted to make this point, and im not picking on you, i include everyone on the forum including myself. Im not looking for a row!
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Yes, and if you look today I have said that. I just don't think he has played well today or the last time I saw him.
@Attrotel, I am not saying we need to drop him, I know there is nobody who can come into to his position. That is a problem in itself, I'm saying we need to replace him, obviously not this Jan due to inflation in prices, but certainly during the summer.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Nor me mate, I just haven't read a good enough reason to believe Carsley is the man. Apart from the fact that there is nobody else, I just don't think he has enough strings to his bow to be a top class midfielder.
He is not an attacking midfielder his job is to break things up and give the ball to someone like ossie.
Hargreaves cost 18 million and has been injured or out of form this season who would you have instead of carsley and you can,t choose dickson etuthu.
You wanted him out straight away an hour ago now you realise we have not got anybody who can play the role better.
One thing that does not help carsley is when neville plays in the middle cos nevill gets in his way.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Well no the job of the defensive midfielder is to be the link between defence and attack. Box to box. Drive the team forward. Did anyone see Micah Richards today? He was more box to box than Carsley was and he's a centre back.
Trust me, when we sign the player, you will all agree that the team will be better off. If we replace Carsley with the same kind of player, we won't progress.
Trust me, when we sign the player, you will all agree that the team will be better off. If we replace Carsley with the same kind of player, we won't progress.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
I have realised along time ago that we have nobody else, that's why he needs to be replaced. I do want him out, but I know we can't just drop him for nobody, we need to play somebody there, and yes he's the best man at the moment, but he's still not good enough for the progression we need to take.
zero
Player Valuation: £30m
you gonna sort me out for not liking Carsley eh?
Maybe Jenas should play in that role.
You could say if we replaced aj with keane we would score more goals we all agree we are going to need a replacement for carsley in the next 12 months but the 5 man midfield has got our season going and he has been superb
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Jenas this season for me has been a better player than Cars. He gets box to box.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Well no you can't say that, because AJ is scoring goals and has a decent record in large. But he isn't first choice anyway.
When Yak's back he's our main striker.
I tell you what. If Carsley won the ball played it off to Ossie and then looked for a return or at least give him an option, than that would be valuable to me. Because with Carlsey we don't have a 5 man midfield. We have a 4 man midfield and a 5 man defence.
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