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Your stance on Martinez AND what would change it?

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the players might be great in training but they are only playing against themselves, they know each other pretty well so certain player stand out more or look better individually. but on actual match days against opposition these same players do not produce the quality or team ethic needed to win. Every match for the past two seasons the team if winning look bored and this lets the opposition back in, from the kick off some slack passing and lazy movement seems to set up the whole match and everton lose, they have not played a full 90 mins in any match that I have witnessed. the same players are picked and yet these same players are not winning the matches for him, so therefore he needs to change training and introduce new skills to the players if he wont use others. constant rotation keep players on their toes and hungry for playing. not show boating and trying the spectacular but working hard for each other doing your job first whether it is a defender or attacker and not leaving the team out of shape and position, working on the defence should be paramount, not to panic when defending but just me more aware of responsibilities. playing with freedom and losing doesn't help happiness so he needs to add discipline and authority and if players are not following his tactics or fail in their duties he knows and can replace or change them. the amount of goals conceded is criminal, I fully expect to concede nearly every attack, so if we think that so do every team in the premier league, get tougher get aggressive get better. show the passion to the fans, not just besic and his attitude but every team member, not be pally but be laser focused and determined to play for the whole match. If we are winning keep scoring don't settle back and stroll, if losing disrupt the opposition get them out of comfort zone and destroy them, no match is lost and no match is won until finished. This is their job, not friends playing football in the park, get serious about how they do everything from match day to training, to studying techniques, to practising, to diet, TO MENTAL COURAGE TO OVERCOME any inferiority complex they may have.
It is a great team shown by goals scored, now just learn DEFENCE and courage to WIN. Think of all the sad young fans coming to watch their beloved everton play and ask yourselves as a team and individually are you, and have you been doing enough, for yourselves and them. If the answer is NO, then you know what needs to be done.
 
My mate, Chelsea fan rang me tonight.

After we got the life stuff out of the way, first thing he said was " got to sack Martinez you lot, look at your side, it's miles better than he has them doing. Lukaku 50m player, Stones 50m and one of the hottest young defenders in Europe, Barkley must be. 40m player, Coleman a 20m full back and Baines on the other side who is getting a little older but still one of the best, McCarthy who would get you 20m+.....on paper! one of the most financially valued teams in the league and he has you sat in 12th and won 5 all season"

Have to say, he has a point!
 
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If Martinez was as brilliant as some believe, surely someone would have come in for him. I just have this nagging feeling that his limiation is midtable and whats holding him back is his stubborness and resistance to change
 

Dymak said:
Personally, I think being as close to the relegation zone as you are to the top six at the turn of February is disgraceful with the squad that he has at his disposal, but I will concede that this season has yet to finish. But say the remainder of our season replicates our form over the past 18 months, and we have yet another bottom half finish, do you still think he is the best man for the job and worthy of being the 6th best paid manager in the Premier League?
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I think that if that is the case, then we need to re-evaluate in summer definitely. I'm hopeful it won't be though
 
I think it's time the board act and sooner rather than later. Remember he was given the job on the premise that he'd get us champions league football and despite a promising first season (which I maintain was in some part down to Moyes' defending philosophy still fresh in Jags, Coleman's etc minds) we have gone backwards and are on course to finish in the bottom half of the league for a second consecutive year. So to all fellow Evertonians I ask, is that acceptable? Surely your answer has to be a resounding no!

We have the squad and talent to be easily pushing top 4 but there is a stubbornness in our manager that his philosophy of total football cannot be compromised with even the mere thought of having to defending a lead. What's wrong with winning uglysometimes? or changing formation to make us sturdier at the back? If he did then at least half of the draws this season would have been wins and likewise some losses would have been wins/drawn. This is the reason I believe a change is necessary.

In our current position and the prospect of european football highly unlikely, we are on the brink of losing the best squad of players we have had in the Premier League era. You only need to look at Villa to see how easily it can go all wrong!

To all the sceptics out there who keep throwing the 'who's going to replace him' argument I'm sure there would be plenty of candidates and interested parties.

The reality is this.....we are closer to the championship than we are the champions league!!
 
I am still with him.

But if I hear Timmy's name over the tannoy on Wednesday night then I am seriously thinking of becoming a plotter.

Sorry, @davek.....but there is no sensible reason to play Tim again this season :(

(If Joel has a 'mare on Sunday though, I will be in no man's land)
 
magicjuan said:
The retaliation, implied as it is, against supporter unrest. Saying he feels sympathy and is just as frustrated, doesn't cut it, he needs to offer some sort of apology, an olive branch to the supporters, recognise mistakes have been made and declare an intent to put them right, with some sign that he is addressing the issues, allowing Robles a run in the side for example.
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The thing is , if he was to do that he would be admitting he was wrong all along, there is absolutely no way he will do that, if he did that would be part of his resignation speech. There is no way he will change his approach, which is fair enough cos thats what he believes in.
 

I watched his interview today is he on the same planet as everton fans we are not under acheiving is he for real weve no defence couldnt keep a clean sheet if their luves depended on it and he kkeeps playing stones whos cost us points and the league cup
 
BlueToff said:
Okay mate, decent thread idea I think.

Trying to stay away from discussion re. Martinez, i think you all know my views...

I'm behind him.

I don't agree with all of his decisions (Howard etc., certain tactics), but I also see the logic in a lot of the decisions as well (e.g. bringing on Kone the other night in an attempt to help Rom out).

I think that, taking into our account of goals scored in the last 18 months (127 from 80 games in all comps) as well as goals conceded (109 in 80), it is obvious that, fundamentally, he needs to change the defensive structure somehow.

I think that he has shown signs of that since the turn of the year.

I cite:

- Spurs at home - a solid defensive display, that at first negated our attacking. We mixed it up in the second half and in the end were unlucky not to get a winner. Fair result.

- City at home (lg.cup) - great display all-round. No complaints.

- Dag & Red: irrelevant, really.

- City away (lg): Good defensive showing. Got away with the penalty call but equaled up for the one against Stoke that cost us the point at least. Only team to keep a clean sheet vs City since Jan.15.

- Chelsea: Good 1st half, great start to the second. Had a bad five minutes and conceded twice, which is worrying, but away from home against the champions also should be taken into account. Re-grouped, scored and attempted to kill the game. Would have won it if the officials had done their job.

- Swansea: Really bad first half, worst we've been all season. Came out renewed in the second half, but couldn't get the goals. Besic going off injured hurt us.

- City: Went with a game plan and executed it well for 70 minutes. Another very bad piece of officiating and then the inevitable collapse came/City had the quality to take advantage. Should not be used against RM. Best side in the country on paper and they showed it.

So, I believe in those five matches that counted so far this month, we've shown signs of improving in defence. Little signs, but signs none-the-less. The trick is quite clearly being able to combine a solid defence with an attacking display we know we are capable of.

For example, we have done this on a few occasions and have waltzed to victories looking unplayable at times.

- Sotton away, Chelsea at home, Boro away in the quarter final, to an extent Villa and Sunderland.

I believe that the attacking displays (40 goals scored already in PL, compared to 48 total last season in PL) show definite improvement. Our defence still has a lot of catching up to do. We have conceded 45 in total in all comps this term, and scored 53.

For all the complaints about not winning games, we have also only lost 6 in total in all comps this term. We have won 11. Not good enough, no, but then again the results have not always reflected the performances, due to a combination of the points I have listed above.

In conclusion, I believe Martinez is currently the right man for the job. This is based on the above, what we have seen he can do in his first season in charge, and that it is the middle of the season. We are also playing the best football I have ever seen Everton play, and I believe it is some of the most exciting attacking football currently being played in the supposed best league in the world.

I am not steadfast in my support. I will criticise when I believe he/the team deserves it - his refusal to not play Joel in the league being a prime example. Coming into this season I expected a top 6/7 finish. I would have been happy with a cup and top 10. Being realistic, I still think both are achievable.

My opinion will change if we start to lose games consecutively in the league heading into the key part of the season. We have 45 points available. I'd like to think if it clicks we can pick up around 30 and get well over 50 points. If we do not reach this mark, and we have not won the cup, then summer would be the time to re-assess and see where we are at, and whether it would be better to go for a manager who has the know-how and style to take this team where it can get to, even if some of the players do leave. However, at this point in the season, I do not believe any of those managers are available/would leave their current job to take over us.

At the end of the day, we all want Everton to achieve. And i'm not looking for any debate on Martinez, as that is for the other thread. The above is my opinion.

EDIT: I also want to add, that I believe our results will improve a lot when McCarthy returns to full fitness, with Besic ideally able to slot in as well.
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You see, sensible, cogent posts like this are the perfect counter to the emotionally charged posts demanding we sack our manager.

And this from a lad of twenty years of age.

Well said, Toff ;)
 
top 8 and decent FA cup run, think he should stay. if we get bummed by carlise and finish where we are now I might think about replacing him in the summer.
 

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