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Back to a David Moyes team

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Gwladysstreetlad said:
Our "jewels"?! Sweet suffering Christ, that's gotta be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here and that really takes some doing! Those "jewels" your talking about delivered nothing, absolutely nothing here. They all failed miserably if you want to be blunt about it and the biggest contribution all four of them made for us was the profit we sold them for. Dry your eyes and change your sheets lad, you've had a mare here!
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Rom is our record scorer in the Premier league era though.
 
yakublue said:
You can't really say that about Lukaku, who was the best striker to play for the club in my lifetime. Bar maybe lineker but I don't remember that.
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I'm sorry mate but he won sweet FA for us, he delivered nothing therefore he failed. Ditto for Liniker, and BTW the best comparison between those two is that we've sold both and will be a better side because of it.
 

Zatara said:
Whats the flaws of players who weve sold for good money got to do with their replacements being nowhere near the quality or potential star quality of them?

Lukaku + Stones sold for a fortune and the first signings we went for were Williams and Rooney...
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Again, you don't know until they have played some proper games for us. I personally think Keane is a better player than Stones, certainly in 2017.

I would have assumed Sandro would be right up your street.
 
The problem sadly is that they wanted to leave because we've not won anything in a while and similarly players of equal value that we would like to bring in as replacements don't necessarily want to come because we've not won anything in a while. Simple as that. To solve this we need to perform beyond the sum of our parts.
 
BornBlue76 said:
Think you chose a bad headline. Many will get sucked into it when the article itself is thoughtful and largely accurate. We have a plethora of ageing players, which is why we knew the defense was due an overhaul.

We have lost a top player in his prime and are about to lose another.

IMO the article is relatively optimistic in light of this. In Schneiderlin we have a class player at the top of his game. Gana we know what we have.

So we are reliant on our recruits to come in and deliver. I think we have bought especially well. Each of them was a pivotal player and leader in their respective teams.

RK is also well aware we need players in their prime... but we can't expect to do it all in one summer. We need to earn the right to sign players wanted by the best instead of developing them to be the best. As of now I'm very happy with the summer. It isn't over yet.
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I think the sad thing is that weve lost Stones and despite knowing we have Jagielka and Baines pushing it we went and added in Williams. The signings of Keane and Pickford are a huge improvement on keeper and 2nd best centre back but we need a top centre back in there to really take us up a notch I think.

Same issue with both full back positions if Coleman comes back weaker.

In the centre like you say we have schneiderlin and Gana and I could see Sigurdsson slotting in there but instead weve gone for Klaassen whose as yet unproven and in attack we look very poor at the moment. A collection of around 10 players none of whom (bar sandro perhaps and lookman) seem to have what it takes to sprinkle some stardust.

Its going to be interesting to see who comes in next...more of the same or the next level up.

As for the title, you can see the replies for yourself so if they haven't understood the post then they probably cant understand the link either lol
 

Zatara said:
I'm feeling quite miserable after seeing Ronald Koeman effectively tell us that Barkley is going. The fourth player classed not long ago as one of our jewels along with Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu.

John Stones was classed by an enormous amount of people as a potentially 'world class' player and recognised as one of the jewels in our team. Sure, we can look at a variety of negatives and also the large transfer fee but in the end we lost Stones to Man City and arguably the top manager around. - Guardiola isn't one of the top managers around in terms of defences though mate - as for Stones - he has been terrible for City and looks very much like going tobe an expensive
bust

The recent bids for Swansea midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson are eerily similar to 12 months ago when we signed a 31 year old Ashley Williams to replace Stones. He had performed well for Swansea and also internationally for Wales and most people thought he would make a good stop-gap and perhaps a mentor for a truly top foreign defender last summer (who we of course never signed). No comparison - one is 31 the other is 27, one has produced assists and goals for a team lacking any fire-power far better than any midfielder we have had in about 20 years

Fast forward until today and we have signed Englands long term keeper in Jordan Pickford and a man mountain and England international Michael Keane. It seems to me that the ideal partner to Keane on paper would have been John Stones. No he wouldn't have been mate, Stones is the type of centre back that undermines any other cb he plays alongside -he really was all show no substance

Everton would then have, three long term English internationals and would be able to maximise on this not only on the pitch but through marketing and exposure to show young English players what they can achieve. The global marketing into Asia and other regions would be very lucrative also. We just signed by a million miles the biggest English p;layer in terms of overseas appeal mate, i doubt any asian would even recognize a picture of stones or barkley

Instead of this we lost our 'jewel' and have Ashley Williams (who will turn 33 in August) and haven't brought in any 'star' centre back or any 'potential' John Stones type star. Williams is the Jags replacement, Keane is the Stones one mate, glad we haven't brought in a Stones type 'star' cb,rather have a defender who knows howto defend than one who gets made to look a clown by a novice Lookman.


Back to Sigurdsson, he's a great player. When he was at Reading he was always in the media and also at Swansea he's always been their top player. He'd have been a great signing for us to play with Barkley and Rooney all linking up and getting the ball to Lukaku. However, we've lost Lukaku and we're going to lose Barkley. So instead of imagining something which looks interesting on paper, we instead have the prospect of spending 50mil on a transfer fee and probably something similar on wages/bonuses for someone whose not even close to a 'Star' player or 'Potential' star player. Looks like another short-term signing to me. Both Lukaku and Barkley are types of players that need a team built around them to service them, neither are actually good enough all around to do that IMO, the whole is better than the sum of it's parts

A lot of people have been clamouring for Giroud. This is another Ashley Williams, he could be solid for a season, maybe even for two seasons when he turns 33. Is Giroud a 'star' player like Lukaku or a 'potential world class player...nope. So why sign him? Giroud starts for one of the best International sides around and keeps out 'star' players, he scores in big games consistently, he scores more per minute than Lukaku and his allround game is miles superior, his style of player can last comfortably into his mid30's - see Zlatan, Dzeko etc

I'm just wondering if, as an Evertonian, I should in some way be excited by the reality of losing 4 'jewels' and replacing them with short term stopgaps Williams, Sigurdsson, Rooney and perhaps Giroud. Depends if you want to see a better Everton side - or just a young promising one that fails to deliver and is all smoke and mirrors


Looking at our squad, if we discount both the young players and the more experienced players and solely focus on the age group from 22- 29 who do we have without any 'ifs' or 'buts' about them this season and in the mid-long term?

Pickford -- Potentially the long term Everton and England number 1.
Keane -- Man Mountain and looks a solid defender who should also be a rock for England
Schneiderlin -- Our Sami Khedira who keeps us ticking along
Gana -- Energetic tackling machine

These are all top 'supporting cast' members and with Bolasie and Coleman (unknown recoveries) as well as the adaptation of Klaassen and Sandro we seen to have a collection of 'supporting cast members' and no 'stars'.

Are we becoming another 'David Moyes' side with a team aiming to be greater than the sum of its parts?

Have we recycled the squad players and our 'jewels' to go back to a workmanlike Moyes style team?

I suggest that the next few signings will show us if we're going for 'stars', potential 'stars' or players to fit into a particular system.

Other than Leicester I don't think this approach has worked for anyone so I hope any new signings surprise us in a good way and they and the u21s provide the 'star' quality we seem to be missing to break into the top 4.
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Zatara said:
Whats the flaws of players who weve sold for good money got to do with their replacements being nowhere near the quality or potential star quality of them?

Lukaku + Stones sold for a fortune and the first signings we went for were Williams and Rooney...
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Most are unknown quantities.

Sandro, Klaassen and possibly Pickford and Keane are unknown or relatively new to this league.

Rather than think we are doomed, what if this spine clicks into place and we win stuff. At least the team is all pulling in the same direction and is determined to succeed. We have always had a player with one eye on the exit since I can remember.

Could go either way but it will be intriguing to see.
 

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